Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier - Page 4
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Gojubrian View Post
I would keep my concealed handgun......concealed!!
I couldn't agree more!!
If the dude would have kept his weapon concealed with no momentary unconcealment this whole mess could have been avoided.

The LEO may have over reacted, but we are only gettin' 1/2 the story.
We don't know what training exercises he (LEO) had that week to put him in that kind of mindset when seeing a weapon momentary unconceal. We don't know what kind of calls he had that day; all the shooting victims he had to help that week, disarming punks & thugs, etc.
One thing I'm sure of, the LEO did what he felt was needed to keep himself and citizens safe. People are quick to point out when a LEO oversteps the boundries, call them names and consider them in a negitive way. UNTILL that one time we need help, the first call will be to 911 and those LEO's will respond to protect us and ours without knowing what they are getting into.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:17 AM   #32
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#1 - Ok, point one. Guy in suit walking along and cop covers the subject on a stop, oh yeah you forgot the the officer saw a weapon on the subject and it was a high crime area. The totality of the circumstances remember not pick and choose.
My bad thought I put that in there. But it does not change anything. The guy was not threatening the cop by simply having a gun.

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#2 - From the cops own words. Lets see,,,, oh yeah the cops words as reported by the lawyer and the media.. and we all know that lawyers and the media tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The point is we only have one side of the incident.
And the courts words as quoted in the article.

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#3 - Where is this?
On a reservation.

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cops don’t have ESP and criminals don’t wear special clothing or have signs and as I said to protect society from those predators cops sometime stop people innocent of violations.
You are right they dont have ESP and that is why you treat everyone with equal respect until they threaten you.

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#4 - I refer to post above about what the cop said and where you come from the cop would likely be shot, ect. I have to assume in my job or I would probably not be alive today.
You would do fine if you don't threaten people that are obeying the law.

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#5 - Thank you for your service in the Corp, however, being a military MP on an installation is totally different from being a civilian police officer outside a base. Military bases are a controlled environment where it is normal practice that people don’t carry guns. Even lawful concealed carry is controlled by the installation commander and military members can be held accountable for violations of base regulations if the base commander does not allow it. You as a MP know pretty much who is on the base and do not deal with the extent of the unknown as what is encountered daily outside. Military training and response procedures are different then civilian police. I have dealt with this with former military police that were hired by us and were indoctrinated by the military to never draw their weapon under threat of court marshal. But again I would expect you to understand totality of the circumstances in an incident and not make over sweeping judgments on an incident without them. For the last time, I’m not judging the cop or the lawyer, however, I will say that there is more here than the simple tale told by the lawyer and the media. I would like to read the court transcript.
I was not an MP. Read my post again.
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For ten of my twenty two years in the Corps I worked on the side as an LEO for JPD.
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You have never worn a badge.


Son. Long ago I learned that my integrity is the most important thing in life. It is the one and only thing no one can take from me. The government can take my money my land and my freedom. Whatever diety you believe in can take my life, or my family. But no one can take my integrity. So you will have to excuse me for not taking kindly to being called a liar.

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Pointing a firearm at someone for a lawful reason IS NOT deadly/lethal force. If an officer waits for the suspected bad guy to "go for his gun" before the officer does, the officer will be called DEAD!
And the officer that points his firearm at every suspect can also soon be called dead. Cause eventually people will grow tired of having their lives threatened without cause. Now apparently the state ruled that his actions were justified. I for one would like to know what crack rock they are smoking. I would not call it legal nor moral.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:34 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Louisville View Post
My bad thought I put that in there. But it does not change anything. The guy was not threatening the cop by simply having a gun.



And the courts words as quoted in the article.



On a reservation.



You are right they dont have ESP and that is why you treat everyone with equal respect until they threaten you.

You would do fine if you don't threaten people that are obeying the law.



I was not an MP. Read my post again.





Son. Long ago I learned that my integrity is the most important thing in life. It is the one and only thing no one can take from me. The government can take my money my land and my freedom. Whatever diety you believe in can take my life, or my family. But no one can take my integrity. So you will have to excuse me for not taking kindly to being called a liar.



And the officer that points his firearm at every suspect can also soon be called dead. Cause eventually people will grow tired of having their lives threatened without cause. Now apparently the state ruled that his actions were justified. I for one would like to know what crack rock they are smoking. I would not call it legal nor moral.

You may have intgegrity but your attention to detail is sadly lacking, the post "you have never worn a badge" was not mine it was Robo. However, if you did work, as you put it, on the side as a LEO I find it hard to believe you spent any time on the streets. And I really don't care if you think I'm calling you a liar, I find your stated credentials suspect at the least and your idea of how to respond to incidents nieve.

This is the last I will broach this subject you have your opinion and I have mine.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:00 PM   #34
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You may have intgegrity but your attention to detail is sadly lacking, the post "you have never worn a badge" was not mine it was Robo.
Yes I know that. Instead of copying everything I posted going back and requoting Robo I just copied that part of his post and typed in the quotes. Then addressed him.

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However, if you did work, as you put it, on the side as a LEO I find it hard to believe you spent any time on the streets. And I really don't care if you think I'm calling you a liar, I find your stated credentials suspect at the least and your idea of how to respond to incidents nieve.
That is really too bad. But people often tend to dismiss people they dont agree with.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:56 PM   #35
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For me (or anyone else) to second guess an officer in "X" jurisdiction on his handling of a situation is unfair to "his" reality. It may not seem proper based on our reality, but we have no way of understanding his reality.
With due respect to you and your profession, LEO's cannot be allowed to act without supervision and review by appropriate authorities, be it their Internal Affairs department or the Courts. The attorney acted correctly by taking what he must have considered a questionable action/stop/seizure by the LEO to his most available mediator, the Courts.

edit*
"On July 26, 2006, Schubert filed a citizen's complaint
against Stern for his conduct on July 21. As a result of the
report, the Springfield Police Commissioner recommended that Stern
be retrained on Massachusetts firearms law but found no specific
wrongdoing on Officer Stern's part and did not recommend
disciplinary action."
from the link on page 1.
This makes me think that the officer's supervisors didn't think he did his best or understood fully the laws he was to enforce or perhaps the manner in which they were to be enforced.

Someone had mentioned the attorney suing for some sum of taxpayer money; i could not find mention of that amount or that the attorney was suing for cash compensation as opposed to some other remedy.
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Last edited by orangello; 01-06-2010 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:41 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
You have never worn a badge.
Well. Yeah he has. After talking to Skull in chat the other day, and thinking back after reading this thread. This guy does have several pictures up in the subsea shop of him in uniform. So he either wore the uniform of a guy with the JPD or attended a costume party and wore one. But I must say that you can see age difference in the various photos.
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