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Old 05-09-2014, 03:09 PM   #81
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Sadly, like a few others here, I have had to operate weapons on defense of my country. You always have the question in your head if you did the right thing afterwards. Some people deal with it by becoming drunks or junkies, others to to "Support Groups" and still can't talk about it. I really feel for you folks in LE, because you have to deal with the same stuff military personnel have to with this, even if the creator of the situation is different, the outcome is the same. You feel sad or depressed, because no one wants to waste anyone, and you have to live with it until you draw your last breath...


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Correct you are!
But I crossed the 'bridge' a long time ago. When I got back for RVN the first time I had to do some 'soul searching' and came to the conclusion that my motives for my actions were good and I did what was right. I did not just do as I was ordered, but did what 'I' considered the right thing to do under the circumstances. I did not always agree with my superiors (especially in DC) but from what I saw everyday made it apparent I was on the right side of this situation, just as I see my activism today as on the right side of the situation.
It is hard when you are directly involved, face to face, with another human being but when I was going thought their 'stuff' I realized if I were not going through their things they would be going through mine!
To me it is all about 'right and wrong' not 'good and bad'. Combat, for any reason, is BAD but the thing you must prove to yourself, and in some cases to others, is that is was the RIGHT thing to do.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:14 AM   #82
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Correct you are!

But I crossed the 'bridge' a long time ago. When I got back for RVN the first time I had to do some 'soul searching' and came to the conclusion that my motives for my actions were good and I did what was right. I did not just do as I was ordered, but did what 'I' considered the right thing to do under the circumstances. I did not always agree with my superiors (especially in DC) but from what I saw everyday made it apparent I was on the right side of this situation, just as I see my activism today as on the right side of the situation.

It is hard when you are directly involved, face to face, with another human being but when I was going thought their 'stuff' I realized if I were not going through their things they would be going through mine!

To me it is all about 'right and wrong' not 'good and bad'. Combat, for any reason, is BAD but the thing you must prove to yourself, and in some cases to others, is that is was the RIGHT thing to do.

Spot on Jim! As always. Did you know the first sentence is a line from a song? ( Changing Luck by Little Feat, on the "Representing the Mambo Album(1990) written by Paul Barere( Lead Guitar) and Bill Payne( keyboards). That album and song got me through a few tough nights in the Desert in 91...


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Old 05-10-2014, 10:09 AM   #83
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I have only been in a situation once where I felt threatened enough to draw. Lucky the perp wasn't a complete idiot, as I was reaching he realized it and fled. But if I had drawn my weapon, I would have used it. Not pulling it to wave around.

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Old 05-10-2014, 10:34 AM   #84
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Certainly everyone that has a gun is not prepared or ever planning on using it for SD and thats OK as long as you know your not a candidate for doing so. There are others that assume they will be ready to do it if need be but dont understand that Buck fever isnt just a hunting affliction. Most young hunters experience it once or more, targets in the crosshairs but no boom! Not a defective gun or faulty ammo, just a frozen finger that doesnt force the trigger to click even when the brain says shoot the damn thing. Not scary when its a buck but could be deadly in an SD Situation. Been there, done that, (hunting wise) went home empty handed, never did shoot a deer, just didnt have my heart into it.

I say this knowing most people dont know if Buck Fever will hit them until its too late. Dont get me wrong, I never shot a deer but killed countless other critters without a blink of an eye or a slight twinge of guilty feelings. Something about shooting something as large or larger than me that makes me think twice and by then, opportunity has passed. Add to that I really never needed the meat and my wife wouldnt eat it anyways.

Personally, I believe I would react as trained in an SD situation because as trained by the military, that which Im engaging is an imminent threat to me or others unlike the Buck. Hope I never have to find out what I would do and hope the same for all of you out there. My technique for not finding out is to construct a lifestyle that statistically is more safe than it is risky (other than a brief 21 year stint with the Army). Living to fight another day is a short sentence with long term ramifications.

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Old 05-10-2014, 10:58 AM   #85
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I have only been in a situation once where I felt threatened enough to draw. Lucky the perp wasn't a complete idiot, as I was reaching he realized it and fled. But if I had drawn my weapon, I would have used it. Not pulling it to wave around.
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Personally, I believe I would react as trained in an SD situation because as trained by the military, that which Im engaging is an imminent threat to me or others unlike the Buck. Hope I never have to find out what I would do and hope the same for all of you out there. My technique for not finding out is to construct a lifestyle that statistically is more safe than it is risky (other than a brief 21 year stint with the Army). Living to fight another day is a short sentence with long term ramifications.
I have actually drawn six times, in a little over a quarter of a century, and each time the gun only cleared the holster because I believed my life to be in imminent danger and all six times the threat to me decided he would rather live than push his agenda. It is flat-out scary to reach for that grip, pull from the holster and point it at a person that you feel you must shoot to save your own life. There is no higher fear and adrenaline rush than that. I would advise anyone carrying a weapon to take these mental and biological responses very seriously and address them in their own minds before they are in the situation.

One way that I have seen trainers address this is to have a person sprint for 100 yards and then engage a shoot/no shoot scenario. Since almost no one is used to sprinting anymore, this gives you all of the physical problems of an adrenaline rush and forces you to deal with a shooting while puffing, panting, sweating and with decreased muscle control and possible shaking. Consider parking across the parking lot the next time you go shooting and sprinting to the firing line and engaging a target as quickly as possible. You may find some weaknesses you need to work on before your next life-threatening encounter.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:17 AM   #86
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One way that I have seen trainers address this is to have a person sprint for 100 yards and then engage a shoot/no shoot scenario. Since almost no one is used to sprinting anymore, this gives you all of the physical problems of an adrenaline rush and forces you to deal with a shooting while puffing, panting, sweating and with decreased muscle control and possible shaking. Consider parking across the parking lot the next time you go shooting and sprinting to the firing line and engaging a target as quickly as possible. You may find some weaknesses you need to work on before your next life-threatening encounter.

Interesting and Im sure your right. The crawl, walk, run style of training in the army proved that as well. The aggressiveness of all of us increased dramatically with increased Tempo. Your not gonna get that feeling or test your judgement resting comfortably from a shooter platform aiming at static paper targets. I doubt I could feel as confident about my reactions if I hadnt had 21 years of that drilled into my brain.
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Old 05-10-2014, 01:09 PM   #87
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I have actually drawn six times, in a little over a quarter of a century, and each time the gun only cleared the holster because I believed my life to be in imminent danger and all six times the threat to me decided he would rather live than push his agenda. It is flat-out scary to reach for that grip, pull from the holster and point it at a person that you feel you must shoot to save your own life. There is no higher fear and adrenaline rush than that. I would advise anyone carrying a weapon to take these mental and biological responses very seriously and address them in their own minds before they are in the situation.

One way that I have seen trainers address this is to have a person sprint for 100 yards and then engage a shoot/no shoot scenario. Since almost no one is used to sprinting anymore, this gives you all of the physical problems of an adrenaline rush and forces you to deal with a shooting while puffing, panting, sweating and with decreased muscle control and possible shaking. Consider parking across the parking lot the next time you go shooting and sprinting to the firing line and engaging a target as quickly as possible. You may find some weaknesses you need to work on before your next life-threatening encounter.
well said Greg.

another thing i think is important is the phisophical preparedness one should make before having a gun for SD.

i know several times, we have seen where someone wants a gun to either shoot to wound a BG or to fire a warning shot to scare them away. both of which i feel are poor choices for getting a gun for SD. we have even in times past had threads where these two situations were discussed.

if a person isn't prepared to use deadly force or can't make the distinction between when it should be used, then they have no business with a gun for SD IMO.

it is something everyone who owns a gun for SD or is thinking about getting one for SD needs to reflect on and do some deep soul searching before the situation occurs.

taking of a human life, even some POS scumbag intent on doing you or your loved ones harm isn't something to ever take lightly and without knowing there are life changing consequences when it's over with. i know many years ago i struggled with the decision and took the counsel of my father to understand what i needed to do. it wasn't an easy decision, nor one that i have taken lightly for many years now.

i hope and pray i never have to take the life of another person, and hope that some scumbag doesn't put me into the position where i have no other choice, but they also made or are making decisions that force me to do what i must do. i will do what is needed to be done to defend and protect my loved ones and myself. i may not like it, but i will do it.
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Old 05-10-2014, 02:01 PM   #88
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No doubt at all. I could definitely pull the trigger. I train several times a month to be sure I do not endanger innocent bystanders. I was in the Army. I will pull the trigger. How will I feel afterward? I hope I never find out. But it will not be as bad as I would feel if I did not stop someone from hurting my family. That is for sure. People that think it will not affect them are not being realistic. Police are sometimes forced to shoot people in self defense...and it ends their career. They simply decide they don't want to have to do it again. But no matter how bad you feel about it afterward, it is not as bad as knowing you could have protected a loved one and chose not to. And it is certainly better that allowing your children to become orphans.

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Old 05-10-2014, 02:06 PM   #89
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Hey AXXE,

I totally agree with the warning shot or wounding shot being a bad idea. My mom once told me she was thinking about getting a gun. I told her I would be happy to take her to the range and even give her one of my guns. But she made it obvious that she would not be able to shoot someone. She didn't even want to go to the range to learn. She was just planing on scaring them away with it. I told her someone would take it away from her. I suggested she get mace instead.

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Old 05-11-2014, 01:46 AM   #90
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Hey AXXE,

I totally agree with the warning shot or wounding shot being a bad idea. My mom once told me she was thinking about getting a gun. I told her I would be happy to take her to the range and even give her one of my guns. But she made it obvious that she would not be able to shoot someone. She didn't even want to go to the range to learn. She was just planing on scaring them away with it. I told her someone would take it away from her. I suggested she get mace instead.
Trying to scare an assailant is a real bad idea to be used only if you are out of options. A BB gun pointed at me would scare me enough to back out, but I'm a reasonable person. Too often an assailant is not a reasonable person or is drunk, high, or just plain nuts. That, unfortunately, is when force is needed to stop them. I would never expect an assailant to react rationally, but they might.
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