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Old 01-07-2014, 05:20 AM   #61
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This is unreal and is a very old case. I wonder if it occurred today if the outcome would be any different. Then they (some LEO's) and Judge's wonder why we want to carry guns and protect ourselves?
If you look at the bottom of the wiki page I posted there are links to other cases that are just as ludacris. One of the judges commented he has never seen such incompetence in his life but he couldn't rule for the plaintiff because the police are protected by law
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:05 AM   #62
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i am reminded of a thread that got started here a few months back.

it was about a LEO who shot A DOG in self defense. i was honestly SHOCKED to see so many posters here HEARTBROKEN over a video of a dog squealing and flopping around after it was shot......YET.......so many on this board boast of their ability to take a human life with no regrets...........i mean i have a seen many animals die in violent manners, but the thought of seeing a human die is such a manner is a very disturbing thought for me.

for me, the answer is YES. i would pull the trigger to protect my family, but i am 100% sure i would hate having to do so and question it from that point on. i would sincerely hope that i could reflect on the incident and find that i had no other way to avoid the situation whatsoever. i would sincerely hope i STOPPED the situation as opposed to killing a human being. but when using deadly force, that isn't for us to decide.

if i felt my life and my families was in danger, i have no doubt i pull the trigger until i feel they are safe. but without regrets?......i'll hold that decision until i have to see a person gagging on their own blood or sh!tting themselves and gasping for breath as their life fades.....hopefully, and i pray to God....i hope it is something i'll never have to know, because i can't imagine any way i would feel that outcome is "good"....regardless of if it was necessary.

my 2 cents, feel free to disagree.
I remember that thread. It sickened me to watch that video, because, as a hunter, I feel it is wrong to cause an animal or a person undue suffering. That being said...

Hawk. I can see where you are coming from, and I can only speak for myself. I pray every day that I am never in a position where i have to choose between pulling that trigger and death for me or mine. You'll notice that my response to the second question was: Yes, God willing.

If it comes to the point that I ever have to make that judgement call I know that I will have to lean hard on God and my family, and that it would haunt me. It would haunt me because If I am put in that position, i have failed at my goal of avoiding it, but I also know that I would feel a million times worse if the outcome was loosing my wife or daughter to something I could have prevented. Taking a life in self defense is something I would strugle with. Losing one or both of them is something that I could not ever get past. As i said , If I am willing to die for those I love, what, in the name of all that is Holy makes anyone think I would not kill for them.

As you ended yours, i will end mine. JMO, YMMV.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:53 PM   #63
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If you look at the bottom of the wiki page I posted there are links to other cases that are just as ludacris. One of the judges commented he has never seen such incompetence in his life but he couldn't rule for the plaintiff because the police are protected by law
Just went back and read a paragraph. I wonder how many people know this and how many LEO's know also. This doesn't come from any state or governmental site - I would like to see the official wording before I think I'd advocate the validity. I could see this being used as defense for drawing a weapon.

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One of the basic themes of gun control is that only the police and military should have handguns or any type of firearm. I cannot explain their rationale, other than to say that gun control proponents must believe that the police exist to protect the citizenry from victimization. But in light of court decisions we find such is not the case. You have no right to expect the police to protect you from crime. Incredible as it may seem, the courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to even respond to your calls for help, even in life threatening situations!. To be fair to our men in blue, I think most officers really do want to save lives and stop dangerous situations before people get hurt. But the key point to remember is that they are under no legal obligation to do so.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:15 PM   #64
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The above is 100% correct. The Anti-gun progressives do not want this information known. 'Facts' really cause problems for them!!!
With over 30 years in LE I can tell you it is most often just blind luck when we (LEO's) intervene in an in progress crime.
If a RP makes a call about an in progress crime 99% of the time it is over and done with (except the paper) when we arrive!

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Old 01-07-2014, 04:32 PM   #65
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What many people forget is that laws are a deterrent to crime, not a protection from crime. Therefore, those that uphold the law should also be viewed as deterrents, not protection.

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Old 01-07-2014, 10:14 PM   #66
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kfox75;1476786]I remember that thread. It sickened me to watch that video, because, as a hunter, I feel it is wrong to cause an animal or a person undue suffering. That being said...
ok, i agree. i don't enjoy watching any suffering myself. but i am bit floored by the fact so many posters were crying about what an outrage it was and explaining how they could hardly watch it....

....and then turn around here and describe how they could kill a human with no remorse. i'm sorry, but imo i find this line of thinking almost completely backwards. most people eat animals every day. WTH?

and before anyone starts in on innocent animals....well, even in that video that dog was threatening an officer....it was a justified shooting imo. i am sorry the dog had to suffer as it didn't understand, but justified nonetheless.

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Hawk. I can see where you are coming from, and I can only speak for myself. I pray every day that I am never in a position where i have to choose between pulling that trigger and death for me or mine. You'll notice that my response to the second question was: Yes, God willing.
i agree....and this was really the only point i was making. although the taking of a life MAY be justified in self defense....no one should want it it happen, and i would think any normal person with any sense of compassion would hate to do it and likely wish it had never happened.

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If it comes to the point that I ever have to make that judgement call I know that I will have to lean hard on God and my family, and that it would haunt me. It would haunt me because If I am put in that position, i have failed at my goal of avoiding it, but I also know that I would feel a million times worse if the outcome was loosing my wife or daughter to something I could have prevented. Taking a life in self defense is something I would strugle with. Losing one or both of them is something that I could not ever get past. As i said , If I am willing to die for those I love, what, in the name of all that is Holy makes anyone think I would not kill for them.

As you ended yours, i will end mine. JMO, YMMV.
well said, sir....and i agree 100%. every free man should have the right to protect his loved ones. i'm just saying that i feel it would be a terrible situation that would likely have a lasting effect....even if it was justified.

at the end of every barrel fired with the intent to kill someone, is the trail of shattered lives it leaves behind. it is someones son, daughter, someones father, someones friend....perhaps your young children or wife gets to witness entrails across their living room floor or someone gagging for their last breath?

justified as it might be, it is still going to be terrible. if a person doesn't think that is true, i fear one may lack the moral conscience that many career criminals seem to lack also.

and i honestly fear for a world where we have more compassion for dogs than humans.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:24 AM   #67
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Just went back and read a paragraph. I wonder how many people know this and how many LEO's know also. This doesn't come from any state or governmental site - I would like to see the official wording before I think I'd advocate the validity. I could see this being used as defense for drawing a weapon.
Why haven't you googled up the court documents if doubt the validity of the link I posted? I would find out the truth instead of casting doubt without just cause.

Edit: The links to the court documents are at the bottom of the page under the heading "references". You can't expect the courts to post the minutes of every trial on a .gov site.

http://gunrightsalert.com/documents/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia_444_A_2d_1.pdf
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:47 PM   #68
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Why haven't you googled up the court documents if doubt the validity of the link I posted? I would find out the truth instead of casting doubt without just cause.
Not casting doubt - I just haven't googled/read everything yet.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:40 PM   #69
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Seat belts safe lives in extreme circumstances and because the government believe we are to stupid or irresponsible to use them they have mandated their use by statue, but enter the PPD (primarily handguns) which also save lives in extreme circumstances and they do just the opposite!!!
Why is this???? Because the government CAN NOT FORCE THEIR WILL ON ARMED CITIZENS, they do not 'trust' you (or me) with the means to defend ourselves!!! In other words your government would rather see you victimized by criminals than advocate on your behalf the RIGHT of self defense so they can maintain control over you, the irresponsible untrustworthy 'subject'!!!

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Old 01-08-2014, 07:52 PM   #70
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I think that what's also at work here, Jim, is a deep conviction among statists (gun zombies) that they know what is best and that the thoughts that float around inside their heads are much more worthwhile and desirable than my thoughts - or yours - and certainly more desirable than reality. In some sense, they are like very large, armed children who insist on playing "Pretend"....and that's where it stops being funny.

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