a cop drop his gun in a mall - Page 3
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:51 PM   #21
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Reckless endangerment comes to mind. Also discharging in city limits. Probably a few others that the LEO's on here can come up with.
The fact is...MOST people wouldn't be charged criminally if they were carrying legally. Obviously, if any property damage were done, and I can assume there WAS since I understand it happened inside a structure, he would be on the hook for repair (which is only right), and it would be a civil matter.

True...there ARE charges that could be filed...BUT...absent injury and with no malicious intent most folks would get a "Shame on you for being stupid" lecture. He will PROBABLY catch a departmental rip and MAYBE get some time off without pay...which he should. I'd make him go through the ENTIRE pistol course at the academy again with newb recruits...but that's just me.

Why he wasn't carrying in a holster is anybody's guess. Our department MANDATED holster carry, which I totally agree with. My pocket BUG is always in a holster and I don't (WON'T) own a holster that doesn't cover the trigger guard. Tucking your pistol in your waistband may "look" cool to movie goers and "LETHAL WEAPON" fans...but it's nitwittery.

As for the DEA Agent who shot himself in the foot...double dumbass shame on him for being stupid. There was NO reason for him to take his "Fotay" out of it's holster in a classroom full of kids. If he wanted to show them a gun...he should have used a de-activated armorer's model.

Cops aren't perfect people, though we ARE held to a higher standard, and realistically should be. BUT...that being said...all the anti-cop flamers really can plant a smoochie on my tooshy. I have found the vast majority of cop flamers are jealous and really would like to be a cop but for whatever reason can't be. You have to EARN your badge. They don't hand them out to every nitwit who asks for one. True...some nitwits DO slip through the cracks...I know, I had to work with some of them. The reality is....they wind up going into management...or flaming out and going to work in the public sector.

Personally, I have cut breaks to civilians a LOT more often than I ever cut a break to other officers. I arrested an off-duty officer FROM MY DIVISION for DUI one night. I could have simply driven him home...but I always had ZERO tolerance for DUI. The fact that he was a douchetard notwithstanding. Especially since ALL he would have had to do is call one of us that were on duty and ask for a ride home or called a cab (cab companies here will give you a free ride back to your car in the morning if you call them!). My friends, even the non-cop type know that ALL they need to do is call me and I don't care what time it is, and I will go get them and bring them home.

The arrest didn't make me particularly popular with some others, but MOST of the people with whom I worked respected my decision. Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else is watching.

If you don't DO THE JOB...you don't have a clue about the job. Big freakin' deal if your cousin's husband used to be a cop so now you know it all...you don't know how hard it is just to DO THE JOB nowadays. Everyone second guesses EVERY decision you have to make RIGHT THE **** NOW from the luxurious position of a recliner or from watching a 15 second soundbyte on the evening news, then of course you rush to judgement before ANY of the facts are in between your seventh and eighth beer and slice of pizza while your guts grows ever farther past your belt line.

So, no, I am not defending the officer who dropped his weapon. Shame on him for being stupid. But I AM defending the job I did for over two decades. If you want to criticize ALL cops, get off your dead ass and try to BE one, then tell me how easy we have it.
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:09 PM   #22
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Here in California, I would have been cited for negligence at the very least and had my firearm and permit taken on the spot.

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Old 11-05-2011, 06:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
The fact is...MOST people wouldn't be charged criminally if they were carrying legally. Obviously, if any property damage were done, and I can assume there WAS since I understand it happened inside a structure, he would be on the hook for repair (which is only right), and it would be a civil matter.
Good answer; that is what i was wondering about. Some embarassment and safety training and paying for the damage seems fair to me.


Now, as far as the diatribe on the public's lack of understanding for your CHOSEN profession, that goes with the job in almost any authority/enforcement position. When i was a tax auditor, we were taught that a bit of misunderstanding/mistrust/judgementalism by the public we served was just part of the job and that if we couldn't bear it that we should reconsider our choice of career. I found it tiresome but understandable; of course, after a decade or so, i chose to change careers.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:30 PM   #24
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If you want to criticize ALL cops, get off your dead ass and try to BE one, then tell me how easy we have it.
Do you count Military Police by any chance? It's a whole nother animal, but the same species.

I don't like the cops in my area. There are a few good ones, but they are severely outnumbered by the crooked ones. The cops in my home town are known for playing golf while on duty (and driving their patrol cars on the course, which is against club rules), some of them have been busted repeatedly for selling steroids at the local gym, and there have been elderly people (like my grandmother) pulled over and had their prescription drugs confiscated (without ever being charged, and without hearing anything from the PD except "what xanax?") And those guys got nothing but a reprimand, except the one who confiscated my grandmother's xanax because they mysteriously disappeared and it was our word against his.

I'm sure in some areas it's better. I related a story on another thread about how I was pulled over by a MS Highway patrol while I was doing 90 in a 70, and he was so polite and courteous that I ended up thanking him for giving me a ticket.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:36 PM   #25
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No holster? not even a pocket holster? Wow maybe Darwin wanted that bullet to go up through his brain instead of through the floor.

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Old 11-05-2011, 07:59 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
The fact is...MOST people wouldn't be charged criminally if they were carrying legally. Obviously, if any property damage were done, and I can assume there WAS since I understand it happened inside a structure, he would be on the hook for repair (which is only right), and it would be a civil matter.

True...there ARE charges that could be filed...BUT...absent injury and with no malicious intent most folks would get a "Shame on you for being stupid" lecture. ~snip~
I agree....at least here in most parts of Arizona.


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~snip~ The arrest didn't make me particularly popular with some others, but MOST of the people with whom I worked respected my decision. Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else is watching.

If you don't DO THE JOB...you don't have a clue about the job.~snip~
This takes a fortitude not many other occupations require. And, in some departments would be a career killer. Fortunately, this is the kind of integrity many officers have.....but very seldom does it make headline news. To you AL, my hat if off and I salute.....especially true is your "If you don't DO THE JOB...you don't have a clue about the job"



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~snip~ So, no, I am not defending the officer who dropped his weapon. Shame on him for being stupid. But I AM defending the job I did for over two decades. If you want to criticize ALL cops, get off your dead ass and try to BE one, then tell me how easy we have it.~snip~
I think everyone has a right to criticize an officer for a valid reason, just as you have in your post. Unfortunately there are those who flame it into ALL, or MOST......which seems to inflame the "us and you" mentality. Often, they don't take into account what is beyond the news, they skip over facts, or ignore facts, or fail to realize there is always more to the story than the news reports. I suppose it is our human nature, we need to fight, to quickly condemn, and slowly forgive. It is true, most of the time, "when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away". It is also true, "when people are threatened, who do they call?".

Thanks Lawman for your service.....

.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:06 PM   #27
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Do you count Military Police by any chance? It's a whole nother animal, but the same species.
its the same job but with more responsibility than a civilian cop. my mp training was 4 months long begining to end. not only did i have to adhere to the ucmj rules when dealing with military personal we had to follow civilian rules when dealing with the non-military public.

the military in my experience holds their police to a higher standard than civilian agencies. i think you get a more proffessional officer as you dont have a mp union covering up for the bad mp troops like the civilian police unions fighting to keep individuals who should be fired on the spot if not jailed outright.

i enjoyed my military service and the reality of the civilian law enforcement quickly told me that i dont belong. right or wrong my feelings are that police SHOULD be held to a higher standard but in milwaukee there are over 150 police officers with felony convictions and are still employeed.

police fire medic whatever dont hold a awe for me ive seen it and been it the officers are no different than the people you meet anywhere some good some bad. the problem comes in my estimation when the bad keep their jobs after doing something that would land a regular civilian in prison...

i dont think this nd cop should be fired but i DO believe that the chief of police in milwaukee would be calling for the death penalty on a civilian ccw if the roles were reversed.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:02 PM   #28
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its the same job but with more responsibility than a civilian cop. my mp training was 4 months long begining to end. not only did i have to adhere to the ucmj rules when dealing with military personal we had to follow civilian rules when dealing with the non-military public.

the military in my experience holds their police to a higher standard than civilian agencies. i think you get a more proffessional officer as you dont have a mp union covering up for the bad mp troops like the civilian police unions fighting to keep individuals who should be fired on the spot if not jailed outright.

i enjoyed my military service and the reality of the civilian law enforcement quickly told me that i dont belong. right or wrong my feelings are that police SHOULD be held to a higher standard but in milwaukee there are over 150 police officers with felony convictions and are still employeed.

police fire medic whatever dont hold a awe for me ive seen it and been it the officers are no different than the people you meet anywhere some good some bad. the problem comes in my estimation when the bad keep their jobs after doing something that would land a regular civilian in prison...

i dont think this nd cop should be fired but i DO believe that the chief of police in milwaukee would be calling for the death penalty on a civilian ccw if the roles were reversed.
How in the name of blue people on Pandora can a person with a felony conviction still be employed as an officer? Notwithstanding federal law...but really? There is no way that would fly here in AZ or anywhere else.

Number one....PROHIBITED possessor. If you can't pack a heater, you can't be a cop.

Number two...I have to call balderdash on that one. I'd like to see the info on that one.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:19 PM   #29
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How in the name of blue people on Pandora can a person with a felony conviction still be employed as an officer? Notwithstanding federal law...but really? There is no way that would fly here in AZ or anywhere else.

Number one....PROHIBITED possessor. If you can't pack a heater, you can't be a cop.

Number two...I have to call balderdash on that one. I'd like to see the info on that one.
How about the ones who sell drugs? I had one in my apartment building selling crystal meth. He was reported, slapped on the wrist with an unpaid vacation, and went back to work in 2 weeks. Face it, they're not all golden. But I also know they're not all rotten either.
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:15 AM   #30
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I never will forget a broadcast by the late Paul Harvey. He had just reported a bad act by a policeman. Then he said, & I paraphrase, you may hear about a few bad police officers, but they still have a better record than the clergy.

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