Considering .45 caliber carry instead of 9mm - Page 4
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:39 PM   #31
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So far as a "compact" .45 is concerned, the most important issue is the "height" of the piece, i.e., the length of the grip. That is what protrudes against a shirt and makes the giveaway bulge. There are several double-stacked .45's out there with 10+1 capacity that are pretty easy to conceal: Para USA Warthog, 3" barrel, 6.5" OAL, 4.75" height, 10+1 capacity. Other Para models of similar size.
Also Taurus PT-145, 3.3" barrel, 6.1" OAL, 4.8" height, 10+1 capacity.
The recoil of a .45 is not a big problem if you get a firm grasp of the gun and keep your wrist from flopping around. A little practice will take care of that.
That said, shot placement is the most important factor. Don't get panicky and don't use the "spray and pray" method. Take a half second extra to make sure the front sight is on target, center chest or between the eyes, then shoot. 9mm, .40, .45, or even .380 should be OK with a good hit.

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Old 08-17-2012, 06:59 PM   #32
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You know,I don't buy into the "one shot stop" stuff.

Physically,and as has been explained to me,the only way to actually achieve such a feat as absolute immediate incapacitation is to hit the brain stem or the lower brain- the medulla oblongata.

Otherwise,its up to hypovolemic shock,or loss of blood.

These are the two ways to force a determined adversary down with handgun bullets.Of course,theres also psychological shock,the will to fight,etc; but haven't we all heard stories of people walking into emergency rooms with bullets/knives/big ass rods of steel like javelins and ****;etc,etc going right thru their skulls,right thru their upper brains..........steel rods like rebar in their chests......just barley missing big arteries like the pulmonary and aorta....

and there they are walking and talking........

A determined adversary could take alot of punishment from high explosives and still keep coming......so to think a single projectile from any specific handgun has a mathematically calculable chance of incapacitation in any given specific scenario just doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not willing to rely on any percentage ratio derived by statistical analysis of highly anomalous scenarios like shootings to determine that such and such caliber is "better" then the other.

I'd rather rely on having a gun I can use to put hits where they count and keep hitting till I'm sure I'm safe from danger.

That,coupled with ammunition that will consistently penetrate to punch holes in vital stuff,is what I'd rather stake my ass on.

When someone is considering a weapon for concealed carry to stake their lives on,its more important that they can deliver and their ammo will not fail them,then any caliber consideration.

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:23 PM   #33
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That is a very good point. Here's a more detailed chart that illustrates the "one shot stop" more accurately or believable

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:30 PM   #34
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I don't believe it. According to the chart my 9mm has a slightly higher chance of one shot stop than my 10mm. I call bs.

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:41 PM   #35
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If you actually take the time to study the chart it makes more sense.

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:44 PM   #36
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It's a good graph and definitely a good reference. I wish it was more complete.

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:53 PM   #37
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No,sorry it does not make any sense at all.

Heres why:

All of this data is derived from individual incidents of shootings.
Shooting incidents themselves do not occur in a controlled environment.In fact,human conflict is probably one of the most out of control events.
Each of these kinds of incidents are as different from the other as night and day.

To attempt to take just one of the circumstantial facts of these events -caliber- and make a chart detailing which one has better performance based on such random events is on shaky grounds to begin with.

Perhaps if we were to take ONLY those shootings in which a projectile actually hit vital organs,and then divide the study to reflect which particular vital was struck and by what caliber and THEN attempt to determine how long after such a strike it took before incapacitation between various calibers we might have something.

But simply saying that "such a such caliber had more chance of a one shot stop" based solely on random,unrelated incidents that have nothing in common whatsoever is like saying that I went down to the witch doctor and the week after I won the lotto so the voodoo must have worked.

I promise you that there is no magic in "stopping power".To drop a determined adversary you must force them down by depriving them of the ability to continue fighting.
You do this not with hydrostatic shock,or the "stopping power" of bigger/faster "explosively expanding" whatever bullets,but by hitting vitals.
Period.

One of the most potent examples of this was the shooting of Trooper Mark Coates,where he unloaded 5 shots from his .357 magnum revolver,with ammunition that was supposed to be the best "one shot stopper" ever,into the center mass of an adversary that then killed him with a single round of a .22 from a derringer that went in Coates unprotected armpit and into his heart,killing him in half a minute.
His murderer?
Fully recovered and doing life.

how did this happen?

Simple- Coates super whiz-bang .357 magnum JHP's failed to penetrate and/or hit anything vital.

The other guys' .22 did not.

Shot placement + penetration = "stopping power".

Do not rely on your caliber or a special boutique load.

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clem_ View Post
The .45acp is a proven man stopper.

Whats the prove. ?
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #39
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alexanderjason34
welcome to the forum.
For your first post, you're kinda takin' a bath in it. But it's typical for a simple question to result in a bunch of bickering, one-upmanship and lotsa opinions.
If you wish to get a .45, great, get one. Or two. Or a dozen. keep your 9MM if you like.
And consider the info here carefully, but understand that each responder has his/her own prejudices based upon experience, careful study (or pulling it out of a hat) so you can make your best decision.
Good luck.

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Old 08-17-2012, 08:11 PM   #40
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I am going to take this opportunity to be the obnoxious Pratt who says "9mm and .45 are useless. You might as well throw glass beads at your attacker. 10mm FTW"
Just kidding. I hope I haven't already replied to this one... I recommend buying several pistols in various calipers until you find your match. If you can't, try renting at the range. If not that, and you are a new shooter, consider starting out with 9mm due to price and the fact that you can get everything from cheap plinking stuff to absolute SCREAMERS in +P... Very versatile cartridge!

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