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Old 03-05-2014, 06:48 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
Common sense, plain and simple!
Doc, those who CC with or without a permit should not, and most do not, advertise it.
Requiring a 'permit' only makes 'criminals' out of ALL those who exercise their RIGHT TO CARRY without one!
That is why I, as a LEO, did not arrest people for 'simply' carrying without a permit. There had to be some aggravating circumstances if I were to arrest them.
But to answer your question. I became an out spoken proponent for the RTKABA's in CO and have had several hundred students as a civilian Armed Self Defense Instructor and one of the things I have discussed with MANY people about them CCW w/o a permit and I found that between 1 in 6 to 1 in 8 'average citizens' carried w/o a permit.
As I said in a post to Vincine, I would like to think you're right, but when you think about CA, NY, NJ, and DC as dense population states that don't routinely allow concealed carry, I sincerely doubt you are.

Once again, is this your opinion based on your small part of the world, or can you actually back this up with some links?
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:55 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
Common sense, plain and simple!
Doc, those who CC with or without a permit should not, and most do not, advertise it.
Requiring a 'permit' only makes 'criminals' out of ALL those who exercise their RIGHT TO CARRY without one!
That is why I, as a LEO, did not arrest people for 'simply' carrying without a permit. There had to be some aggravating circumstances if I were to arrest them.
But to answer your question. I became an out spoken proponent for the RTKABA's in CO and have had several hundred students as a civilian Armed Self Defense Instructor and one of the things I have discussed with MANY people about them CCW w/o a permit and I found that between 1 in 6 to 1 in 8 'average citizens' carried w/o a permit.

Since moving to Az, because Az is a Constitutional carry state, I did carry for a few months in 2012 without the permit, but the minute it was available to me, that was over....


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Old 03-05-2014, 11:05 AM   #93
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Since moving to Az, because Az is a Constitutional carry state, I did carry for a few months in 2012 without the permit, but the minute it was available to me, that was over....


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I understand that, but there are only five Constitutional carry states, and I would doubt that all of them combined equal the population of Chicago and DC, which as we both know are strict gun control environments. Add in NY, NJ, and CA and I'm sure you can see why I doubt JimRau's statement. The numbers just don't support it.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:45 PM   #94
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Initially reading your post I thought you were from Yuma, AZ! Hahaha.

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I find it helps, especially in the winter. The seniors and snowbirds are

inconsiderate, slow, and demonstrate signs of ignorance,

arrogance, memory issues, and stupidity. They just flit about,

rudely unmindful of others. Patience is a shopworn virtue down

here.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:58 PM   #95
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Initially reading your post I thought you were from Yuma, AZ! Hahaha.
Heck, I thought he was from Florida.

A quick way to get a day off without pay. Wait for snowbird season. Put a "Delta's Ready When You Are" bumper sticker on the back of your rescue truck.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:35 PM   #96
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I used to live in Indianapolis, always had a proper permit (called a "license" in Indiana). The Indiana permit required the gun to be concealed unless you worked for a security company. One day I went into a restaurant in the middle of the city, about a block from the "City-County Building", where the city and county offices were, plus the city police headquarters and county sheriff headquarters were. The restaurant was usually crawling with cops. All at once a couple of old hill jacks walked in, wearing bib overalls and sporting big single-action revolvers ("hoglegs") in shoulder holsters right out in plain view. It was maybe 10 seconds from the time they sat down before they were surrounded by cops. It turned out that they were from Kentucky, where open carry was legal without a permit, at least at that time, several years ago. The cops just told them to go to their vehicle, take off the guns, and then they could return to the restaurant. It all worked out just fine.

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Old 03-05-2014, 03:43 PM   #97
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Unfortunately, the issue of non-permitted carry has no reliable data. When I lived in Kalifornia, and it was a "May Issue" (meaning "Never Issue") state, I was a courier with no choice over where I got sent. I did that job for one week before a life-threatening incident convinced me to break the law and carry a concealed weapon without a permit. I, like many other law-abiding citizens, was placed into a situation where I needed the protection but had no legal means to arm myself in public. Had someone asked my opinion on a poll or other informational survey, I would've denied I ever carried a weapon for fear it would be used against me.

One thing we must realize is that everyone's perceptions are different. I used to believe almost every criminal either carried a gun or wanted to carry one. Just last year I read a newspaper article that stated many criminals were not carrying guns during crimes because the firearm turned their crime from a misdemeanor into a felony AND added time to their sentence. Even those robbing homes were leaving the firearms behind because, if caught, just possession of the guns would mean they were in jail for a LONG time rather than bailing out and going right back on the street. In this case, my perception was behind the times. Many criminals have realized the sentencing penalties for gun possession are dangerous to their continuing criminal enterprise and have decided to ditch the gat to be able to get out quicker.

I have no idea how many "good" or "bad" people there are in our country, nor how to even define those terms. However, someone engaged in criminal activity with a firearm will most likely, through action or misfortune, eventually be caught and incarcerated. Also, if a criminal uses a gun, he has a very likely chance of someone terminating his criminal career permanently. With all the ways a criminal can be caught, imprisoned and killed, I would believe, statistically, that most of those who carry a firearm without a permit are not a criminal or planning to engage in criminal activity. I believe that there are those innocent, law-abiding citizens that have a bad breakup and feel a need to protect themself and can't get a permit within a day, or a weird neighbor that they're unsure of, or any number of reasons that they place a pistol in their pocket for piece of mind. I do not count these people as "criminals" in the traditional sense, just normally LAC that feel a need to violate an ordnance for the protection of their life.

The truth is there is no way to know the exact numbers of weapon carriers without a permit. As a CCW permit holder, I just comfort myself with the fact that some with a gun are neither permitted nor a criminal. I spend most of my time practicing situational awareness and avoiding situations that put me in danger, which is the best any of us can do.

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Old 03-05-2014, 04:05 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Doc3402 View Post
I understand that, but there are only five Constitutional carry states, and I would doubt that all of them combined equal the population of Chicago and DC, which as we both know are strict gun control environments. Add in NY, NJ, and CA and I'm sure you can see why I doubt JimRau's statement. The numbers just don't support it.
Numbers, Numbers! We don't need no stinking numbers...
See attached file...

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Originally Posted by AIKIJUTSU View Post
I used to live in Indianapolis, always had a proper permit (called a "license" in Indiana). The Indiana permit required the gun to be concealed unless you worked for a security company. One day I went into a restaurant in the middle of the city, about a block from the "City-County Building", where the city and county offices were, plus the city police headquarters and county sheriff headquarters were. The restaurant was usually crawling with cops. All at once a couple of old hill jacks walked in, wearing bib overalls and sporting big single-action revolvers ("hoglegs") in shoulder holsters right out in plain view. It was maybe 10 seconds from the time they sat down before they were surrounded by cops. It turned out that they were from Kentucky, where open carry was legal without a permit, at least at that time, several years ago. The cops just told them to go to their vehicle, take off the guns, and then they could return to the restaurant. It all worked out just fine.
I am a CC instructor here in Illinois. In getting my friends and neighbors
signed up I was surprised to find how many "carry" already and how many
will continue to and not get a license. Surprised on how many and in some
cases who. I would say 1 in 10. And that is in Illinois close to Chicago.
File Type: pdf CC Population.pdf (194.1 KB, 20 views)
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:22 PM   #99
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When youre out of options and cant run/walk away, what do you do? Any thoughts or experiences.


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When you are out of options, you defend yourself. I have never been in a situation I couldn't walk away from. If you wait until that little voice in your head says "oh oh"...it's too late.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #100
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When you are out of options, you defend yourself. I have never been in a situation I couldn't walk away from. If you wait until that little voice in your head says "oh oh"...it's too late.
I have been, twice in my life. Once was in Shi-cago; it was 3 on 2, we won,
but got lucky they did not have guns or knives.

Second time was in the Philippines, there were 4 of us and 6 of them armed
with knives. Got lucky again, as 2 of the guys that were with us, were Seals,
they operated off our ship during Desert Storm, that is how we got to know
them, great guys, it was amazing what they did, faster than we could react
and take a step, amazing training, speed and attitude. None of us were even
close to sober.

First time I was 21 the second time I was 24, now I am 46 and not in very
good shape, back problems and rheumatoid arthritis. I like having the choice
to carry now.
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