The "Center Mass" Myth - Page 13
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:06 PM   #121
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THANK YOU.

My point, exactly.
What, that pelvic injuries are painful. Did I ever dispute that? Getting shot anywhere is probably going to be painful. What's your point? Are you under the impression that pain will stop your attacker from shooting you? It might, and it might not. I'm not willing to gamble on that if a better area presents itself. Of course, if all your attacker has is a knife you just won the fight. He sure can't win a race with you after getting his hip shot out.

Sheesh. I'm about ready to drag out the dead horse, and I started this thread.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:25 PM   #122
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Those of us who have been around gunshot wounds 'when they occur' know pain is not a factor. The impact will deaden the neurons and thus little to no pain is realized for several minutes. Most people will who are wounded in the 'heat of battle' will tell you they felt a 'sting' and many do not even realize they have been hit for quit sometime.
Now the psychological 'hurt' can be much faster than the physical pain, but that is another topic for another time.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:54 PM   #123
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Those of us who have been around gunshot wounds 'when they occur' know pain is not a factor. The impact will deaden the neurons and thus little to no pain is realized for several minutes. Most people will who are wounded in the 'heat of battle' will tell you they felt a 'sting' and many do not even realize they have been hit for quit sometime.
Now the psychological 'hurt' can be much faster than the physical pain, but that is another topic for another time.
Thanks. I haven't been around them that soon. If dispatch is doing their job we try to wait until you guys clear the scene of shooters.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:50 PM   #124
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AR10,
I can see your point. If given any choice at all in the matter I would much prefer to avoid having to use any of the shooting tricks and skills I've learned over the years. I would much rather retire my knowledge of anatomy along with my IV skills and intubation skills. Unfortunately I don't consider that to be an option in an area where those that don't have decide to take by force from those that do have. Do I go out looking for trouble? Absolutely not, but as you can see almost daily through whatever media outlet you choose, trouble doesn't seem to be limited to "those parts of town" anymore. Who would suspect that a simple night out at the movies would include a madman with body armor and a rifle shooting into the patrons? Who would expect to lose their child to gunfire at a political rally?

Since this is the Concealed Carry and Personal Protection folder you could probably assume that people reading the threads in it are interested in knowing how to protect themselves. Arming yourself with a sidearm is not enough. You have to have the will and you have to have the skill in order to protect yourself. You also have to have a high degree of luck and foresight. Whether you ever have to use these skills or count on that luck is totally unpredictable, but the time to learn is not when you're under attack.

I'm going to work on the assumption that since you are an active member of a firearms forum you not only own firearms but actually shoot them on occasion. Do you practice regularly? For what purpose? Are you here reading about firearms and their different uses? Do you consider some of the techniques mentioned here and even evaluate some of them in your practice? Why?

I have a feeling that if there was a secret poll of the members here, and they were totally honest with themselves, that you would find an extremely high percentage of us that hope we never have to use our sidearm for anything but fun. I am also sure that a few of the people involved in this thread went to the article I linked to, read the words, looked at the pictures and decided that since it was written by an MD involved in the shooting sports, maybe what they had been taught could be improved upon. I'm pretty sure that at least one person decided he would prefer to lay down and take it rather than risk a prison term.

Yes, very few people that are shot with a handgun actually die, but how many of them can return to a normal life? How many will escape any disability at all? How many will end up as totally disabled and on the public dole? First the criminal makes them a victim, then they become a victim of their own government. I don't know the answer to the questions you bring up. I suspect there aren't any. I do know that some people have decided not to go down without putting up a good defense. That's the purpose of the folder. If the suggestion to move your shots one hand width higher on the target offends you, I'm sorry.

Do you remember a movie called War Games? Do you remember the line by W.O.P.R after the thermonuclear war scene?

If I can be assured that I can live my life in peace I will gladly play that game of chess. I will sell my guns, quit teaching others to shoot, and I will be gone from any shooting forum in a heartbeat. Can you assure me I can live my life in peace?
I am a new NRA Certified Instructor as of last weekend. Took two classes, pistol and person protection in the home. Have been a life member of NRA for twenty years, member longer, retired FFL pawn broker. I carry a Glock 20 for personal defense.

In the summer, I put bugs outside, I find in my home, in the winter, I extend them sanctuary till spring, if they behave themselves. Not a fan of extinguishing life.

Yes I know this is a thread on how to's of stopping an attacker, but how many contributors to this thread know the ramifications of their own posts?

I will be teaching concealed handgun as well as other safety classes in the near future, and 90% of my classes will be teaching how to stay out of trouble, not how to win a fight.

Nobody wins in a gun fight. Your city/ county will arrest you while they slowly weigh the evidence of what happened, you will need to post bail in all probability as well as hire an attorney if not a team of attorneys.

The person you shoot will sue you, and if you kill that person, their family will sue you. After one kin sues you, win or loose, another kin could and most likely sue you again.

It is not 1813 where men settle law and order issues with a gun and the buzzards close a chapter in someone's life after a gun battle.

Everyone in this thread that carries a gun for self protection, had better understand this is not a video game, and your life also ends, as you know it, once you shoot someone, justified or not.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:35 PM   #125
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I am a new NRA Certified Instructor as of last weekend. Took two classes, pistol and person protection in the home. Have been a life member of NRA for twenty years, member longer, retired FFL pawn broker. I carry a Glock 20 for personal defense.

In the summer, I put bugs outside, I find in my home, in the winter, I extend them sanctuary till spring, if they behave themselves. Not a fan of extinguishing life.

Yes I know this is a thread on how to's of stopping an attacker, but how many contributors to this thread know the ramifications of their own posts?

I will be teaching concealed handgun as well as other safety classes in the near future, and 90% of my classes will be teaching how to stay out of trouble, not how to win a fight.

Nobody wins in a gun fight. Your city/ county will arrest you while they slowly weigh the evidence of what happened, you will need to post bail in all probability as well as hire an attorney if not a team of attorneys.

The person you shoot will sue you, and if you kill that person, their family will sue you. After one kin sues you, win or loose, another kin could and most likely sue you again.

It is not 1813 where men settle law and order issues with a gun and the buzzards close a chapter in someone's life after a gun battle.

Everyone in this thread that carries a gun for self protection, had better understand this is not a video game, and your life also ends, as you know it, once you shoot someone, justified or not.
Not necessarily so! Those who are PC addicts will tell you that, but it is an overstatement! "Nobody wins a gunfight" more PC indoctrination! I have won a few and I count my blessing every time I see the sun rise. Speak for yourself!
It very well can change your life as you know it, but it does not need to. This mentality is the mentality which has made MANY of the new LEO's I trained have more of a fear of loosing their job than their life.
I have used deadly force several times as a civilian, soldier, and LEO and it has not had any drastic effect on me or my lifestyle.
I have witnessed many incidents where DF has been used and it has caused some problems for those involved, but none of them were catastrophic.
BUT you should be aware of the possibilities when you do use DF.
Do what ever you must do, JUST BE RIGHT WHEN YOU DO!!!!
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #126
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I am a new NRA Certified Instructor as of last weekend. Took two classes, pistol and person protection in the home. Have been a life member of NRA for twenty years, member longer, retired FFL pawn broker. I carry a Glock 20 for personal defense.

In the summer, I put bugs outside, I find in my home, in the winter, I extend them sanctuary till spring, if they behave themselves. Not a fan of extinguishing life.

Yes I know this is a thread on how to's of stopping an attacker, but how many contributors to this thread know the ramifications of their own posts?

I will be teaching concealed handgun as well as other safety classes in the near future, and 90% of my classes will be teaching how to stay out of trouble, not how to win a fight.

Nobody wins in a gun fight. Your city/ county will arrest you while they slowly weigh the evidence of what happened, you will need to post bail in all probability as well as hire an attorney if not a team of attorneys.

The person you shoot will sue you, and if you kill that person, their family will sue you. After one kin sues you, win or loose, another kin could and most likely sue you again.

It is not 1813 where men settle law and order issues with a gun and the buzzards close a chapter in someone's life after a gun battle.

Everyone in this thread that carries a gun for self protection, had better understand this is not a video game, and your life also ends, as you know it, once you shoot someone, justified or not.
maybe in your state those things would happen, but not here in Texas, we have a Castle Law. meaning the burden of proof is upon the DA before he can file any charges and carry before a a Grand Jury.

and also in the event the shooting was deemed justified, neither the BG if he lived nor his family, if he didn't can bring a lawsuit against you for using letal force to protect yourself, your family or your property.

does this make us bloodthirsty killers here in Texas? not hardly. just that they put the rights of the LAC above those who would intention doing harm to others and have decided not to allow them to profit when they do wrong.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:27 PM   #127
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Nobody wins in a gun fight. Your city/ county will arrest you while they slowly weigh the evidence of what happened, you will need to post bail in all probability as well as hire an attorney if not a team of attorneys.

The person you shoot will sue you, and if you kill that person, their family will sue you. After one kin sues you, win or loose, another kin could and most likely sue you again.
Not necessarily here in Florida. We have the Castle Doctrine as well as another law you might have heard about. Our now infamous Stand Your Ground law has survived intense scrutiny. Both laws forbid civil damages in a justified self-defense situation. The Stand Your Ground law even goes one step further. It provides for reimbursement should your case go to a Stand Your Ground hearing and you win. In cases of true self defense there are rarely any arrests to begin with, meaning no hearing.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:54 PM   #128
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Not necessarily here in Florida. We have the Castle Doctrine as well as another law you might have heard about. Our now infamous Stand Your Ground law has survived intense scrutiny. Both laws forbid civil damages in a justified self-defense situation. The Stand Your Ground law even goes one step further. It provides for reimbursement should your case go to a Stand Your Ground hearing and you win. In cases of true self defense there are rarely any arrests to begin with, meaning no hearing.
not so much to rehash the Zimmerman case, but did it not take two months before they did arrest and charge him in that shooting? and IIRC, mostly because of media pressure?

yes you can count on being questioned at the scene and maybe even taken to the station and questioned. more than likely your firearm will be taken, but that's a given. even LEO's firearms are taken when they are used in a shooting where a person dies. SOP IIRC.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:21 PM   #129
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not so much to rehash the Zimmerman case, but did it not take two months before they did arrest and charge him in that shooting? and IIRC, mostly because of media pressure?

yes you can count on being questioned at the scene and maybe even taken to the station and questioned. more than likely your firearm will be taken, but that's a given. even LEO's firearms are taken when they are used in a shooting where a person dies. SOP IIRC.
It was less than two months by a week or so from the 911 call to the announcement that he would be charged. As far as the pressure goes I think it was a combination of the media, civil rights groups and the meddler in the oval office speaking out about it. Part of that pressure came out of NBC doctored 911 tapes portraying Zimmerman as a racist. After listening to the actual tapes later it turns out that the first person to mention race at all was the 911 operator. Add in the inflammatory photos of the smiling 12 year old Treyvon Martin instead of the hooded and scowling present day Treyvon Martin and it's no wonder they had to indict.

This next part fits in with this thread. It's a stretch, but it fits. According to the autopsy report Treyvon Martin was shot one time with a 9mm KelTec PF9 with the bullet puncturing his right ventricle. The first officials on the scene report him as "semi-conscious and alert to their presence." He died slightly thereafter. Since it was a witnessed arrest resuscitation efforts were started by the first officers on scene.

So, let me tell you what Flip-Flop Corey is basing her charges on. If Zimmerman had stayed in the truck as directed by 911 none of this would have happened. Anyway, the trial is scheduled for June and the SYG hearing is being incorporated as part of the trial. This is at the request of the defense.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #130
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It was less than two months by a week or so from the 911 call to the announcement that he would be charged. As far as the pressure goes I think it was a combination of the media, civil rights groups and the meddler in the oval office speaking out about it. Part of that pressure came out of NBC doctored 911 tapes portraying Zimmerman as a racist. After listening to the actual tapes later it turns out that the first person to mention race at all was the 911 operator. Add in the inflammatory photos of the smiling 12 year old Treyvon Martin instead of the hooded and scowling present day Treyvon Martin and it's no wonder they had to indict.

This next part fits in with this thread. It's a stretch, but it fits. According to the autopsy report Treyvon Martin was shot one time with a 9mm KelTec PF9 with the bullet puncturing his right ventricle. The first officials on the scene report him as "semi-conscious and alert to their presence." He died slightly thereafter. Since it was a witnessed arrest resuscitation efforts were started by the first officers on scene.

So, let me tell you what Flip-Flop Corey is basing her charges on. If Zimmerman had stayed in the truck as directed by 911 none of this would have happened. Anyway, the trial is scheduled for June and the SYG hearing is being incorporated as part of the trial. This is at the request of the defense.
thanks for providing that information Doc. kind of what i remember about the case.
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