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Old 09-12-2013, 04:18 AM   #51
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There are actually some blind soldiers on active duty I knew a cpt at West Point who was blinded by an ied in Iraq he now is an instructor and is in charge of a company of cadets as a tac officer

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Old 09-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #52
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There are actually some blind soldiers on active duty I knew a cpt at West Point who was blinded by an ied in Iraq he now is an instructor and is in charge of a company of cadets as a tac officer
So your saying he is still carry his weapon into combat because he can just as effectively engage his targets, determine threat from allies........uh no.....ok

I think its great the the military has kept him on instead of casting him to the side like many disabled vets get.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:14 AM   #53
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We addressed all that in the rest of the thread.
So what your saying here is...........oh yeah nothing. ... .lol
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:48 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by JW357 View Post
It just seemed like you had lost the discussion because the arguments were pretty weak.

So anyway, I maintain that someone who is deaf and blind can still understand when someone is n top of them pummeling them. In that situation, it is hard to miss. Stick left hand out, feel for face or chest of BG, get pistol in right hand, attempt to shoot BG where you know the face or chest is, removing left hand before pulling trigger so you don't shoot through your own hand.

We can always come up with situations where shooting is impractical, either for blind people, deaf people, people who are deaf and blind, or for people who full control of their senses. Just because those situations exist doesn't mean someone should be denied (by the law) their 2A right to self defense. Especially when those people are "easy prey," so to speak, they especially need to be able to defend themselves.

Firearms are, after all, the great equalizer.
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Originally Posted by orangello View Post
Anybody remember the case of the blind guy getting shot after struggling with police officers who were attempting to investigate his cane as a weapon (numchucks I guess)? That would suck; do you take for granted that the people grabbing you and shouting commands are legit police officers or do you attempt to defend yourself and become worm food? Tough call.
Gello, I can see your point as a worst-case scenario, but I would have to say the likelihood of it happening is very slim. If it were that heated, an officer would simply deploy a Taser to take control of the suspect and disarm. No police shot, situation controlled.

However, as we all know, with no CCW, you have no way to defend yourself. Even if you have some sight and are legally blind, you carry a white cane with red tip announcing to every BG that you are an easy target. With no CCW, there is no defense, as the cane will be taken away as the BG knocks down his target and pummels him. While some BGs may retreat from Mace, most have encountered it and built up a resistance.

What I don't understand is everyone thinking that a blind man is going to get a 1911, load it with FMJ and be dangerous for miles! If they are smart enough to learn to function in society, read Braille and get around with a cane, why would they be stupid about their self defense? A Bond Arms .45LC/.410 or Taurus Judge loaded with Winchester .410 PDX makes a wonderful combination for a person that won't fire until down on the ground and IS being pummelled by the bad guy. A blind person is much better at situational awareness than most people and would be better at placing a close/contact shot than your average panicking Joe Blow. Besides, after being knocked to the ground, the shot would most likely be upward, lessening greatly the chance that an innocent civilian is near enough to be accidentally shot. The .410 disc/shot load from a short barrel would lose effective velocity quickly, but would be plenty to drop BG.

I would not fear a "blind" person with a CCW so reasonably armed. If the public truly feared that this person would pull his 1911 and blast away indiscriminately (Don't we all?), then make a Provisional CCW that allows for shotshells or limited-range ammo only. They should at least be allowed to defend themselves at a distance at which they can feel the blows and lacerations striking their body.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by manta View Post
What if they are deaf and blind.
Last I heard you don't give up citizenship because you loser your hearing or sight,.
...Or are you advocating one should....?
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:07 AM   #56
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Carrying Concealed shouldnt be a crime for someone just because they are blind or dont have hands! Just because someone was born or became physically disadvantaged does not mean they deserve less rights than the rest of us! If someone was born without a voice, dont they still have 1st amendment rights? The advances in accommodating disabilities make many or most disabilities less than disabling. Besides, A blind person may have a friend or companion that could use that pistol to defend them both if one of them is CCWing.

Anyone who CCW's or drives a car has the responsibility to not injure innocent folks with them. If they do, blind or not, we can prosecute that but Shouda, Coulda, Woulda; Sh!t and Did, Fit and got lost are only possibilities, they are not punishable by restricting rights without provocation.

Ive seen legless humans run, a deaf man owns the most popular AM Radio talk show in America, Mentally Retarded folks create beautiful artwork and children acting more adult than their parents. On the other hand, we see most criminals are completely able minded and bodied humans yet end up in prison for insane crimes they have no excuse for. A law that disallows rights based on a possibility of bad outcomes is groundless, "assumption is the Mother of all Phuck Ups".

Should a blind man carry a gun, thats a personal choice not a government allowed one? When the rules we live and die by come from a higher power than the government, we must ask that Human and the higher power not a Republicrat!

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Old 09-12-2013, 10:49 AM   #57
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Personally, and this is just my opinion based on knowing a few blind people - an aunt on my father's side and 2 cousins on my mother's side...

It depends on the person, but generally they will do learn all they can to be able to be independent. This can spill over into firearms training, providing the instructor is good (as well as practiced with dealing with the blind).

A few of you maintain that they'd wait until the BG was close enough, and I agree. I believe that if anyone is going to have a better handle on a shoot/don't shoot situation, it would be a blind person.

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Old 09-12-2013, 10:55 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg

Gello, I can see your point as a worst-case scenario, but I would have to say the likelihood of it happening is very slim. If it were that heated, an officer would simply deploy a Taser to take control of the suspect and disarm. No police shot, situation controlled.

However, as we all know, with no CCW, you have no way to defend yourself. Even if you have some sight and are legally blind, you carry a white cane with red tip announcing to every BG that you are an easy target. With no CCW, there is no defense, as the cane will be taken away as the BG knocks down his target and pummels him. While some BGs may retreat from Mace, most have encountered it and built up a resistance.

What I don't understand is everyone thinking that a blind man is going to get a 1911, load it with FMJ and be dangerous for miles! If they are smart enough to learn to function in society, read Braille and get around with a cane, why would they be stupid about their self defense? A Bond Arms .45LC/.410 or Taurus Judge loaded with Winchester .410 PDX makes a wonderful combination for a person that won't fire until down on the ground and IS being pummelled by the bad guy. A blind person is much better at situational awareness than most people and would be better at placing a close/contact shot than your average panicking Joe Blow. Besides, after being knocked to the ground, the shot would most likely be upward, lessening greatly the chance that an innocent civilian is near enough to be accidentally shot. The .410 disc/shot load from a short barrel would lose effective velocity quickly, but would be plenty to drop BG.

I would not fear a "blind" person with a CCW so reasonably armed. If the public truly feared that this person would pull his 1911 and blast away indiscriminately (Don't we all?), then make a Provisional CCW that allows for shotshells or limited-range ammo only. They should at least be allowed to defend themselves at a distance at which they can feel the blows and lacerations striking their body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumJunkie

Last I heard you don't give up citizenship because you loser your hearing or sight,.
...Or are you advocating one should....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38
Carrying Concealed shouldnt be a crime for someone just because they are blind or dont have hands! Just because someone was born or became physically disadvantaged does not mean they deserve less rights than the rest of us! If someone was born without a voice, dont they still have 1st amendment rights? The advances in accommodating disabilities make many or most disabilities less than disabling. Besides, A blind person may have a friend or companion that could use that pistol to defend them both if one of them is CCWing.

Anyone who CCW's or drives a car has the responsibility to not injure innocent folks with them. If they do, blind or not, we can prosecute that but Shouda, Coulda, Woulda; Sh!t and Did, Fit and got lost are only possibilities, they are not punishable by restricting rights without provocation.

Ive seen legless humans run, a deaf man owns the most popular AM Radio talk show in America, Mentally Retarded folks create beautiful artwork and children acting more adult than their parents. On the other hand, we see most criminals are completely able minded and bodied humans yet end up in prison for insane crimes they have no excuse for. A law that disallows rights based on a possibility of bad outcomes is groundless, "assumption is the Mother of all Phuck Ups".

Should a blind man carry a gun, thats a personal choice not a government allowed one? When the rules we live and die by come from a higher power than the government, we must ask that Human and the higher power not a Republicrat!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason609
Personally, and this is just my opinion based on knowing a few blind people - an aunt on my father's side and 2 cousins on my mother's side...

It depends on the person, but generally they will do learn all they can to be able to be independent. This can spill over into firearms training, providing the instructor is good (as well as practiced with dealing with the blind).

A few of you maintain that they'd wait until the BG was close enough, and I agree. I believe that if anyone is going to have a better handle on a shoot/don't shoot situation, it would be a blind person.
All good points everyone, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GunRunner

So what your saying here is...........oh yeah nothing. ... .lol
No. What I was saying was your arguments had already been addressed, so kindly re-read the thread to better understand. And now there's 4 more well said points, as I quoted in this comment.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:20 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangello
edit* I thought somebody beat you to this one, but I can't find it.

"all men being created equal..."

I really think a taser would be their best bet: limited range limits mistaken zappees and the stun function would work well up close (maybe a cane connection?).
Orangello.

I had started a thread titled: "Should the blind be allowed to ccw?" But for some reason and without explanation it was blocked and the post erased. It would have been nice to know why.

Back to the point at hand, I have personally seen blind persons get disorientated under a noisy and/or shtf type situation. I believe putting a firearm in there hands endangers innocent people. Under stress, even a person with good eye site might have difficulty hitting the BG.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #60
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I always wondered why they put Braille on the key pad on drive thru ATMs. I just figured if someone blind could figure out how to drive thru the ATM they wouldn't have a problem figuring out those 10 buttons.

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