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Old 01-15-2013, 10:00 PM   #11
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Check out 5.11 tactical. They're designed for concealed carry. I have a few of their products and they're legit.

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Old 01-15-2013, 10:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
This printing thing really needs to be put to rest. Nobody but you knows what it is, it's concealed. As far as anyone knows it's your car keys and wallet, or a good luck charm you carry around. Or a flip phone. You can't see a trigger, or a magazine, or a barrel, it's an outline of a bulge that's triangular.

Slap it in a Remora holster and is even less a visible shape or form.
The printing thing is alive and well in states that haven't enacted legislation allowing it. Does it scare the carp out of the everyday citizen? I doubt it. Most people are too self-centered to be concerned with how other people look.

The problem is with the overzealous LEO. For quite a few years around here it was yet another charge to bring against people. They worked on the assumption that concealed meant really really concealed. It was so bad that the legislature actually made it semi-legal. Inadvertent display and printing are considered the same thing now, just as they were in the past.

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790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
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790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
Keep in mind that the old law is still in force, but the new law grants some leeway and an arguable defense in minor incidents. In the old law the word "careless" was what got many arrested. If you weren't "careful" enough to completely conceal the weapon, you were guilty of "careless" display of the weapon in the eyes of many LEOs.

Yes, I do think it was BS, but that was the reality.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Doc3402

The printing thing is alive and well in states that haven't enacted legislation allowing it. Does it scare the carp out of the everyday citizen? I doubt it. Most people are too self-centered to be concerned with how other people look.

The problem is with the overzealous LEO. For quite a few years around here it was yet another charge to bring against people. They worked on the assumption that concealed meant really really concealed. It was so bad that the legislature actually made it semi-legal. Inadvertent display and printing are considered the same thing now, just as they were in the past.

Old Law

Mitigating Law

Keep in mind that the old law is still in force, but the new law grants some leeway and an arguable defense in minor incidents. In the old law the word "careless" was what got many arrested. If you weren't "careful" enough to completely conceal the weapon, you were guilty of "careless" display of the weapon in the eyes of many LEOs.

Yes, I do think it was BS, but that was the reality.
Definitely a fact. LEOs sometimes do the Barney Fife thing with printing. That's why you got to know the law and obey it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:29 PM   #14
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The law in many places specifically declares schools (even universities) to be gun-free zones. Effective concealment can minimize (but not eliminate) the risk of discovery. Discovery by an antagonist (overzealous LEO, gun control activist, etc.) can lead to fines, arrest, expulsion from school, loss of permit or loss of firearm. Make sure you understand the law as it applies where you are. Make sure you understand the risk you are taking.

My personal opinion is that the 2nd and 14th amendments should be sufficient to invalidate all federal, state and local gun control laws. But "should be" isn't how things are today. Changing that will take extensive legal battles that cost a lot of money. I don't have that kind of money, so I choose to respect the explicitly declared gun free zones (like schools, courthouses, etc.) I frequently ignore the little no-gun signs on ordinary businesses since the only consequence to discovery there is being asked to leave.

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Old 01-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #15
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I guess I don't know what printing is then because as I said, what I consider printing is still concealed, fully covered in cloth. These laws speak of OPENLY displaying a firearm. In a pocket IS NOT OPEN unless there's a hole in it, in which case stop being cheap and go buy a new pair! Lol

Now if printing means the gun is somehow unsheathed and or brandished, well that just makes little sense and they should come up with a new term for it, like brandishing!

Even using the term is idiotic!

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Old 01-15-2013, 10:51 PM   #16
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I don't believe that you can carry a firearm in a tote of any kind and keep control and instant access to your weapon. You say your pants are tight? BUY BIGGER PANTS. Damn it man, dress to carry.

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Old 01-16-2013, 06:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
I guess I don't know what printing is then because as I said, what I consider printing is still concealed, fully covered in cloth. These laws speak of OPENLY displaying a firearm. In a pocket IS NOT OPEN unless there's a hole in it, in which case stop being cheap and go buy a new pair! Lol

Now if printing means the gun is somehow unsheathed and or brandished, well that just makes little sense and they should come up with a new term for it, like brandishing!

Even using the term is idiotic!
In Oklahoma (prior to passing open carry) they defined concealed as "hidden from detection or view". So, printing (outline of gun visible through clothes) allows an observer to "detect" the gun, thus failing to remain "concealed". Printing would allow a zealous LEO to stop you, check your permit, perhaps give you a citation for failure to conceal, etc.

Different states have different wordings. You need to check the actual wording in your state. If a state says concealed means "not openly displayed" then your comment is valid for that state. It would not be valid in a state like Oklahoma (before November 2012, when open carry became legal).
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
I guess I don't know what printing is then because as I said, what I consider printing is still concealed, fully covered in cloth. These laws speak of OPENLY displaying a firearm. In a pocket IS NOT OPEN unless there's a hole in it, in which case stop being cheap and go buy a new pair! Lol

Now if printing means the gun is somehow unsheathed and or brandished, well that just makes little sense and they should come up with a new term for it, like brandishing!

Even using the term is idiotic!
The simple explanation of printing is allowing people to see that you are carrying a gun even though the gun is completely covered with clothing. An example would be the guy that carries a large revolver or pistol. When he is standing the gun would be completely concealed, but in many cases the outline of the gun would become visible through clothing when he is sitting. Another example would be someone carrying even a snubby with a tight tee shirt over it. Is the gun visible? No, but the outline of the gun leaves no room for doubt that it is a gun.

Printing around here was usually a tack on charge. It was a lot like when you mouth off to a traffic cop and he starts writing additional tickets for equipment violations.

Not a printing story, but an example of a tack on charge. This loser was riding down the interstate near here attempting to pull people over with a K-Mart blue light. When they caught up to him they nailed him for impersonating a police officer, attempted kidnapping, and a few other felony charges directly related to his actions. They also added the misdemeanor charge of carrying a concealed weapon. He had a handgun in the center console of his car... something that is totally legal in Florida. The fact that it was during the commission of a felony made it a good charge, but with all the other charges it was never going to amount to anything.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:06 PM   #19
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In Oklahoma (prior to passing open carry) they defined concealed as "hidden from detection or view". So, printing (outline of gun visible through clothes) allows an observer to "detect" the gun, thus failing to remain "concealed". Printing would allow a zealous LEO to stop you, check your permit, perhaps give you a citation for failure to conceal, etc.

Different states have different wordings. You need to check the actual wording in your state. If a state says concealed means "not openly displayed" then your comment is valid for that state. It would not be valid in a state like Oklahoma (before November 2012, when open carry became legal).
I've yet to see any gun "print" to the point that anyone could determine what it is.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:09 PM   #20
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I've yet to see any gun "print" to the point that anyone could determine what it is.
I've seen more than a few lately -
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