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Old 12-15-2009, 07:49 PM   #31
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the state police just wrote me back-

Mr Toth,

The decision whether or not to issue you a concealed pistol license will be completely at the discretion of the gun board. So I cannot say definitively whether your condition will disqualify you. Pursuant to MCL 28.425b(1)(d) all applications require " a statement by the applicant regarding whether he or she has a history of mental illness that would disqualify him or her under subsection (7)(j) to (l) from receiving a license to carry a concealed pistol, and authorizing the concealed weapon licensing board to access the mental health records of the applicant relating to his or her mental health history."

Subsections (7)(j) to (l) state:

(j) The applicant has not been found guilty but mentally ill of any crime and has not offered a plea of not guilty of, or been acquitted of, any crime by reason of insanity.

(k) The applicant has never been subject to an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

(l) The applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment for that illness.

Again, the individual county gun boards are the only ones who can decide whether or not you will be issued a license. You should contact your gun board for further guidance.

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Sgt % ^&^%$ ^&*
Michigan State Police

and this is my countys requirements-

APPLICANT'S CCW CHECKLIST

Complete application, including full legal name and phone number. DO NOT sign the application until you appear before the County Clerk's Office.
Obtain a passport quality photo - DO NOT CUT THE PHOTO. You may obtain your photo at the County Clerk's Office for an additional fee of $10.00
ALL applications - $105.00 fee payable to the Midland County Clerk.
Produce a valid driver's license or Michigan I.D. Card.
Supply the Clerk's Office with a Training Certificate that complies with teh new Law (PA 372 of 1927, as amended). If you have completed a training course prior to November of 2000, you MUST take a refresher course that complies with the new Law. If you are submitting a renewal application (after July, 2001) you have to certify on the application that you have had at least three hours of review of the required training and have had at least one hour of firing range time in the last six months preceding the application. You will not be required to submit another training certificate.
On the application the Applicant is requested to have 2 (two) references, preferably not a close relative. The references should be in the Midland area or the immediate vicinity.
After the completed application is turned in to the Clerk's Office, you will have to have your fingerprints taken. Fingerprints are done every other Wednesday from 12:00 pm to 4:00 pm at the Law Enforcement Center, 2727 Rodd Street, (989) 839-4630. YOU MUST TAKE YOUR RECEIPT OF PAYMENT THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM THE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE. IF YOU HOLD A CURRENT CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSE AFTER JULY 2001 AND ARE RENEWING, YOU MUST TAKE YOUR LICENSE WITH YOU WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR FINGERPRINTS TAKEN.
After fingerprints are returned from the Michigan State Police, you will be notified if you have to appear before the Gun Board. The Midland County Concealed Weapons Licensing Board meets the 1st Wednesday of every month at 10:00 am in the Midland County Services Building - Board of Commissioners' Room, (unless otherwise noted).
Also available for a $10.00 charge is a driver's license size Plastic Concealed Weapons License. Paper licenses may be laminated for a $2.00 charge. Choice and payment should be made at time of application.



so basicly,I would be paying money just to be more than likly denied,because I do "have a mental illness".Even though under my opinion I very strongly disagree that OCD should even be considered a mental illness.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:26 PM   #32
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In my opinion,if you aren't a felon and can legally own the handgun,you should be automaticly eligible to go for a CCW.But that is not the case.I should apply for the permit,mark yes,I do have a mental illness,and when i'm denied,I should have a huge fit and march the capital building.It is unconstitutional,and I should sue the government for discrimination.
You can sue NOW, for judicial review of the laws in question-- IFyou can afford a lawyer, or have the time and knowledge to do it Pro Se; you'll have to go before the Michigan Supreme Court to challenge it on constitutionality. You COULD take it before the federal Supreme court if you challenge it on a federal basis; but the chances of getting heard are about nil.

Until then, you WILL be refused a permit, if you are in ANY way disabled due to your mental condition-- that's how they DEFINE it. Even if it's due to a criminal attack BEFORE CCW laws were issued, and it happened BECAUSE you were unable to defend yourself due to being disarmed.

The Michigan Constitution expressly states in Article I, Section 6, that "Every person has the right to keep and bear arms for defense of self or the state."

This law has been literally laughed at by the Michigan government, passing laws that prevent anyone from carrying a handgun without a license, as well as requiring a license to carry a concealed handgun as well.

Of course these laws are 100% against the Michigan and US Constitution, for reasons I've explained-- but unconstitutional laws are 100% valid, UNTIL the Supreme Court rules them unconstitutional.

If you want to sue, you need unlimited funds-- otherwise lawyers won't even talk to you; and if you take the case to court youself, judges can make an example of you for daring to "play lawyer."

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(l) The applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment for that illness.
And their definition of "mental illness," is ANYTHING that prevents you from earning money-- since laws ALWAYS oppress the powerless, who can't do anything about it, lacking funds, public sympathy, political influence, connnections etc.
The "mentally ill" have always been the world's easiest target, being dismissed as inferior and unimportant, as well as wholly deserving of whatever happens to them.

Last edited by ThomasAnderson; 12-15-2009 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:41 PM   #33
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so basicly,I would be paying money just to be more than likly denied,because I do "have a mental illness".Even though under my opinion I very strongly disagree that OCD should even be considered a mental illness.
And, that's why they aren't asking you for your opinion.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:52 PM   #34
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One of the biggest things keeping me from trying to pursue a CPL is the fact that I have recieved disability for my OCD,it has gotten bad enough to prevent me from holding down work.A judgemental person would say,"oh,well if you can't hold down a job then you shouldn't have the right to carry a gun then".But that's where they are wrong.I see a CPL the same as a drivers license,in which I have held since I was 16.I am fully capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong,reality and unreality,and I can drive a vehicle,I am not mentally unstable at all.I have a severe anxiety disorder is all,not a dementia induced illness.I have personally seen alot of mentally ill people get off busses and go into the psychiatrists office,and clearly they aren't all there,and more than likly they can't drive or get a drivers license,ok,I understand that,and I understand why the state is careful to not give CPLs to someone that is unstable,but seriously,OCD??My simple OCD prevents me from getting a CPL?
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:55 PM   #35
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And, that's why they aren't asking you for your opinion.
I'm not getting your point.Are you saying that someone who washes their hands alot or counts in funny orders,or anyone with OCD is a liability to carry a gun?
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:41 PM   #36
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They took Monk's gun.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:03 PM   #37
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I'm not getting your point.Are you saying that someone who washes their hands alot or counts in funny orders,or anyone with OCD is a liability to carry a gun?
No... I'm saying you can't ask a baseball player what the greatest sport is. In other words, you can't be objective about OCD. However I do believe that if you are capable of getting a drivers license and have no criminal history you certainly should be able to CCW.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:22 AM   #38
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My biggest "what the heck"is this:you HAVE to go to the police station and get a NICS background check to get your pistol permit to buy a handgun here,and no handgun sale,from a FFL or private sale,can be done without a NICS background check,which I did and cleared,and purchased handguns.If they had a valid point to keep a gun out of the wrong hands,they sure didn't do thier job by giving me a handgun if they think I am such a danger as to not be allowed a CCW.The point is that they should have left the CCW laws the same as other states-most states restrict those who have been judged as insane or incompetent.My state is the only one that I know of that will issue a pistol permit to someone,turn around won't then allow a CCW permit.It makes no sense to me,and until I get a few hundred dollars to throw away,I won't even know if I am denied,but from what I gather,I will be.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:52 AM   #39
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Can you get a non-resident CHL in another state that is recognized in Michigan? TX and FL are not recognized in MI, but maybe there is another state nearby.
michigan like california does not recognize non resident permits which is bulls##t.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:46 AM   #40
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I just read your post and that sucks. It has to be hard for you especially since you can purchase a handgun and carry it OC but can not get a CCW. I hope things work out for you with the county gun borad if you decided to try.
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