Bird Shot IS NOT FOR SELF DEFENSE - Page 6
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > Bird Shot IS NOT FOR SELF DEFENSE

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Old 06-20-2011, 11:56 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=Wambli;525691]Yes it will. Stoping a threat is NOT The same as killing an assailant. First off you do NOT shoot to kill, you shoot to stop a threat to yourself or others (of course you are shooting for vital stuff so the threat is ended as swiftly as possible). If the perpetrator dies it is an unfurtunate by-product of your need to use deadly force to defend yourself. If you make a statement to the police that you "shot to kill" the assilant you will be having a REALLY deep conversation with the folks in the DA office in the comapny of a very expensive lawyer.



[B]While the perp is rolling around, put a round (or a clip) in the head.


depends on the situation if you threaten me or a loved one and im forced to shoot or defend myself know that i am shooting to kill,if you want to say to stop the threat thats fine ill say shoot to kill.i am carrying a "deadly weapon" for one reason to eliminate any threats to my safety and the safety of my loved ones and possibly uknown people around me.if i was forced to use my gun in selfdefense i would not shoot for the legs or the arms i would shoot for center mass and if he b.g. went down and did not drop his gun assuming hes carrying a gun,i would continue to shoot until the threat was no longer a threat.now if he were carrying a knife that would be a diffrent situation.now im not saying i would walk up and shoot him in the head but i am saying i carry a firearm for selfdefense and i will shoot to kill.no apologies.

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Old 06-20-2011, 02:36 PM   #52
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[quote=rifleman1;526164]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wambli View Post
Yes it will. Stoping a threat is NOT The same as killing an assailant. First off you do NOT shoot to kill, you shoot to stop a threat to yourself or others (of course you are shooting for vital stuff so the threat is ended as swiftly as possible). If the perpetrator dies it is an unfurtunate by-product of your need to use deadly force to defend yourself. If you make a statement to the police that you "shot to kill" the assilant you will be having a REALLY deep conversation with the folks in the DA office in the comapny of a very expensive lawyer.



[B]While the perp is rolling around, put a round (or a clip) in the head.


depends on the situation if you threaten me or a loved one and im forced to shoot or defend myself know that i am shooting to kill,if you want to say to stop the threat thats fine ill say shoot to kill.i am carrying a "deadly weapon" for one reason to eliminate any threats to my safety and the safety of my loved ones and possibly uknown people around me.if i was forced to use my gun in selfdefense i would not shoot for the legs or the arms i would shoot for center mass and if he b.g. went down and did not drop his gun assuming hes carrying a gun,i would continue to shoot until the threat was no longer a threat.now if he were carrying a knife that would be a diffrent situation.now im not saying i would walk up and shoot him in the head but i am saying i carry a firearm for selfdefense and i will shoot to kill.no apologies.

Apparently I have to break this down to baby steps. I NEVER said use bird shot, shoot the legs, shoot the arms, don’t use a deadly weapon/force, shoot once and stop or any such nonsense folks are dreaming up from my comments.

Let me be plain here. If there is a threat to me or my family and I am forced to defend me/them using deadly force I will shoot any and all perpetrators to the center of mass (or anywhere else I can get them) using a firearm suitable for the job loaded with premium self defense ammo as many times as needed for the BG to figure out that he is out of the game. No other nonsense needs to be even considered.

If you or anyone else here wants to call that shoot to kill, I wish you all the good luck in the world when you use those words while giving the report to the police because you are now in for a really bad time. Again don’t take my word for it. DO your homework and do your research. Read some books by guys like Massad Ayoob and others. Talk to a lawyer about it. It could potentially save you from a lot of expense, aggravation and maybe even some time in jail.

Now if after such an event has happened, just as an EXAMPLE, the BG is laying in a pool of his own blood and he is no longer a threat and is staring blankly into space but still alive, I will immediately call 911 and do whatever it takes to save his life. If you do anything else besides that you are now guilty of homicide. You might get away with it but that does not make you any less guilty.

In that same scenario, if you say on an open internet forum that you will at that point empty a “clip” into the guys head you are now guilty of premeditated murder. You thought it through, you ANNOUNCED your intentions to the world and then you executed someone in cold blood.

I have done my best to explain this in simple terms I think anyone can grasp. Go seek professional advice. Now I'm trully done...
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:18 PM   #53
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That's exactly it folks.
-Stop the threat
-Get to safety
-Call for help
Nothing more. If you feel okay with trying to actually stabilize a downed bad guy, that is a whole different point. I for one would wait for the professionals, but that's just me based on the reading I have done and my aversion to the exposure of potentially infected blood. Don't follow the counsel of the rejects and Dirty Harry wannabes that think it's okay to tie people up after you've shot them (regardless of the fact that they are the resident keyboard commandos). Don't advise people to follow stupid acts of violence. Don't advise people to MURDER perp's so there are not any "witnesses" left.
Stop the the threat. That is all I have ever been tought by numerous professionals including the KS Statutes set fourth and interpreted by the District Attorney. I know several states (the three others I have held CCL's in) teach the same exact thing.
If the perp expires in the process of waiting for help to show up, then that is a whole different matter. The facts will become evident during the investigation. If you shoot the perp once and he keeps trying to inflict harm, then shoot again. But STOP when the perp stops. Anything more is straight up homicide. I am ALL for convicting shooters of murder when their melevolent intents allow them to carry out their murderous actions. That gun in your posession does not grant you the authority of God, Judge, Jury and Executioner. Advising others to shoot until dead is the most rediculous and worst advice I've EVER heard. Tampering with evidence, tieing people up, pretending to do first aid so as to be witnessed "pretending to care" ranks RIGHT UP THERE. Unfortunately, that garbage is floating around here and there are very impressionable firearms enthusiasts that are just getting started. They might not see this BS for what it is. Between reading this and actually reading or talking to credible sources; hopefully they are fortunate enough to not be forced to defend themselves with a firearm. Hopefully never even then. I wonder if the BS spouting folks stop to wonder why Courts do not recognize keyboard commandos as subject matter experts? Or why advising people to murder or restrain bad guys can lead to serious civil liability? You ever wonder why you don't read books that advise of shooting to kill? Civil liability.
Wambli, you are spot on by pointing out that it was stupid to tell everyone with internet access that you intend to kill assailants. It's called Pre-meditation. I can't beleive the idiocy of practically announcing "I'm gonna kill an assailant and I don't care who knows; you all should be like me because I know better than to let bad people live." .
+1 on recommending books by guys like Massad Ayoob and others. Learn your facts from people who have actually have facts and not just a vendictive personality.
And as far as using "bird shot" for home defense:
There is ammunition developed for personal defense and there is ammunition developed specifically for shooting things that go "quack". If you are going to use something for Personal Defense, why negate the weapons effectiveness by loading it as if you were going to shoot skeet? If it's all that you have, then it's time to shop for what you need. One box of ammo is definitely not nearly as expensive as that shotgun was.

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Last edited by fixxer; 06-20-2011 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:36 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpie View Post
sonnypie; if,and only if, you found yourself in the impossible to imagine situation of having to face baddy with NOTHING but a snake pistol and birdshot what would you do? READ CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU ANSWER
I reckon I would have to charge.
Got to get point blank with the load.

Of course you have left a lot out of the equation. But that's fine....
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:47 PM   #55
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In some states if you kill a perp while he is trying to kill you his family can still sue you in civil court for killing him. They use the stupid question why didn't you shoot him in the leg or arm? Which you come back with I might miss the leg or arm and wind up dead instead.

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Old 06-20-2011, 05:34 PM   #56
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Warnings have been issued. This thread is now closed.

If you can not keep to the facts and leave the personal attacks out of your posts, you will be gone from this site, regardless of status, creed, age, race, sex or "assumed subject matter expert".

JD

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