[Dillinger]

I don't agree with the forum on this one, so I am jumping back in.

The guy behind the counter might be an ASSHAT, I think that's what you mean with azzhat, but this forum does allow some big kid words so I am using mine. . We don't know for sure, we have your word on that, but maybe he was coached to say these sorts of things. We don't know.

Fact number one is the human female conditions' NATURAL instinct is NOT to kill. In fact this is found throughout nature when mom's of one species adopt other species that could grow to be a danger to themselves and their offspring. It's a biological trait, they are care GIVERS first.

Second fact is that the Israel has had problems with women in combat since at least 1986 that I can personally recall from the news of a raid gone wrong as a kid when all that mess with Libya was happening and The Bank again is dispute.

So this guy might very well have been towing the company line in telling your significant other that using birdshot will "wound" and not kill.

You might be married to the next Sarah Connor, although Ineffable has already claimed the young John Connor as his offspring, so you might be or you might not be.

Having said that the guy behind the counter doesn't know her from Bambi. For all he knew, she was the daughter of Haight-Ashbury Plankholders and would NEVER take a human life.

Now. Birdshot and distance.

Question. Do you honestly know what the term 12 and 20 GUAGE mean in relation to caliber??

In layman's terms? A 12 gauge is a 1/12th POUND of lead that fits into the weapons bore. So, in 12 guage buckshot, this means there are 12 balls of lead weighing approximately 1 ounce a piece and are 0.729" in diameter.

Birdshot is a variable of that same formula. #4 birdshot is 0.129" in diameter, but the quantity is still the same overall weight as the initial 1/12th of a pound, or about 12 ounces.

So, a shotgun doesn't expand much in 15 or 20 feet?

Good!!!

So we have thus:

#4 Birdshot is about .13" in diameter and weighs a mere 3.2 grains each. A 2 3/4" shell with a 1 5/8 ounce shot charge, there are 221 pellets with a velocity of 1250 fps flying in close formation your way.

If you think THAT is something to sneeze at, I would encourage you to pick up pig head, or a full chicken with the skin on, pace off 8-10 paces and see what damage is done by "merely birdshot"

JD

[rjd3282]

You are correct JD if we were talking about a shotgun. But I believe the OP was talking about a revolver. Not nearly as much shot and if we are talking 38 special not nearly as much velocity either.

Of course I wouldn't want to be shot by either but if I had a choice of being shot with a 158 gr. slug from a revolver or being shot with the bird shot I'd rather take my chances with the bird shot.

Then there is the argument of the right ammo or caliber for the job. If I posted on this forum that I went deer hunting with a 22 LR I'd be blasted for not using the correct weapon for the animal being shot. Legality not withstanding. I think the same rules should apply for SD.

[wmille01]

I have to disagree as well bird shot can be used as self defense ammo out of a shot gun, it may not kill them but getting a dose of rock salt to the chest and face will pretty much make them not want to be there. Turkey loads really mess people up, 3 1/2 mag to the chest make people have a bad day plus the barrel length upping the velocity to the shot.

Still the bang from a revolver mixed in with the pain from getting hit with the pellets still might scare the living hell and hurt like hell, it still has a chance just people using 22's for self defense.

[danf_fl]

Okay, I'll admit that I have birdshot in the wife's revolver. It gives her a "secure feeling" knowing that she has something for snakes.

Her opinion (and I asked) is that the .38Spl birdshot loaded revolver is only for the serpents. Anything else that needs to be shot will be with my other firearms.

Again, this is only one woman's opinion.

[IGETEVEN]

I concur with the above and I am not going to get into a pissing contest about birdshot and buckshot. It seems to be brought up over and over again whether it is a good enough for a SD or HD round for a shotgun.

I have seen what #4 and #6 BIRDSHOT does to a human being at 14 feet, 2 shots, one in the face, the other to the neck and chest. I can personally say with confidence, that said person is not with us today.

Human beings are very fragile and emotional creatures. It does not take as much as one would think, to bring one down.

[canebrake]

Originally Posted by IGETEVEN

Human beings are very fragile and emotional creatures. It does not take as much as one would think, to bring one down.

+1 Jack

Some advice of Jelly Bryce; "Son, if you shoot a man in the nuts.....he will leave you alone."

Profound Jelly, and yet prophetic! Any male members question the validity of Jelly's statement?



In "Shooting to Live" Fairbairn and Sykes documented six hundred and sixty six (666 ) gunfights inside of a twelve year period. They saw this one phenomenon so often that they put it in writing "If you shoot a man in the gut, he will most likely drop what is in his hand."

[Jesse17]

I apologize. I knew I was talking about her revolver, I must have just assumed you guys knew what I was thinking too. I should have made that clear.

She was looking to purchase a S&W mod. 60 LadySmith in .357 because even though she planed on probably using .38 spl. she wanted the extra weight of the steel frame vs. the light weight LCR.

When I'm out geocaching or the like in BLM/state land, I've actually carried my S&W mod. 36 similar to the way the guy was talking. I carry a shot shell in cylinder 1 & 3, and WC (should be JHP but I have a pile of WC) in cylinders 2, 4, & 5. But I don't have any illusions that I'm going to stop a cat or person with the shot shell. I figure my chances of needing the gun are a lot higher for rattle snake than any form of mamal, and therefore have the shot shells. If I need the gun on a cat or person, I will cycle through the shot shell and fire the WC without even hesitating to see if the shot shell had any affect on their attitude. That's the plan, but I've never had to use it.

But, I'm sure as shoot not going carry shot shells in my daily carry piece.

[rifleman1]

birdshot in my opionion good for a shotgun in a close quarters home defense situation but for a handgun or even a shotgun outside of the home i wouldnt recomend it just my opionion..

[WDB]

Bird shot in a pistol is of little use except for snakes. While it might slow or redirect the BG it may not. Why give those few seconds between when you draw your firearm and get on target to a round that is at best a less than leathal round in a pistol? Yes it might work in the right situation but we know a FMJ ot JHP will will get the job done in most situations.

I have some birdshot rounds in 45 (the favorite round of the forum), I got them awhile back for my S&W 1955, for snakes while hiking. Never used them. Willing to put them to the test if anyone is able to set up a wet phone book test, I'll send them to you. You will need three large phone books, soak them in water for 24 hrs. I'll provide the 45 bird shot you will provide FMJ and JHP, distance will be ten feet. PM if you think this is an effective round and we can set up a thread for your test.

[Dillinger]

Mea Culpa!

Handgun section.

I was reading and responding from my Windows Phone and didn't read the section, just the thread.

I do agree that birdshot in a revolver is less than effective.

Apologies all around.

JD