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-   -   Bird Shot IS NOT FOR SELF DEFENSE (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/bird-shot-not-self-defense-42758/)

Jesse17 05-20-2011 11:38 AM

Bird Shot IS NOT FOR SELF DEFENSE
 
Took the wife out looking for her concealed carry revolver yesterday. The azzhat behind the counter told her she should keep bird shot in the first two chambers. That way it's easier to pull the trigger if you "know you're not going to kill the person, then if they keep coming you have HP in the rest of the chambers" :mad:

I waited until we left then explained to her (LadyHawk) why he was a moron. If he's far enough away that you don't feel the need to 'kill him' you're going to jail if you shoot. On the other hand, if he's 3' from you you've got to pull the trigger 3 times before he takes away your gun.

Oh yeah, the azzhat's was bragging about his qualification to excrete this piece of pelosi advice...he teaches Hunter Safety. :rolleyes:

Dillinger 05-20-2011 11:44 AM

So by that rationale, would you allow someone to shoot something like your dog or your dinner with birdshot from, say, 15 or 18 feet??

Because while it would not be my first choice, I would also prefer not to take a blast of it directly in the chest and face to test your belief.

Smaller bullets that hit are always better than big bullets that miss.

Just saying

JD

dog2000tj 05-20-2011 12:34 PM

I've been giving some thought about home defense using a shotgun. Although I would have zero regard for any intruder I wonder about the collateral damage that may occur from shotgun blasts. I would hate to have some shot go through the common wall into the neighboring condo. I'd also hate to ruin any of my painted walls too :o

So I have seriously considered the use of rubber slugs. I'm not too worried that they are supposed "non lethal" rounds. If 3 or 4 of them do not stop an intruder I'm sure a buttstock to the bridge of the nose will ;)

As for bird shot, I don't know too many that can withstand a blast of it to the face and not be incapacitated

Jesse17 05-20-2011 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 508129)
Smaller bullets that hit are always better than big bullets that miss.

JD

I agreed with that.

But, this guys theory wasn't based on her being able to hit her target or not, it was based on him saying she wouldn't be able to pull the trigger, but this way she would "know that she wasn't going to kill the guy". I'm of a mind set that if you don't intend to kill you don't pull the trigger.

And while bird shot may even result in a lethal wound, it's in not my first choice either, and therefore I'm not going to recommend that it's what someone else do. If I won't trust my life to it, I'm not going to tell someone else they should.

hiwall 05-20-2011 01:24 PM

To my mind the birdshot idea falls in line with the warning shot idea. When I teach self-defense and someone asks about warning shots, I always answer that they are a good idea as long as they hit center-of-mass.

EDF924 05-20-2011 01:45 PM

Seems to me that if you are in fear for your life and drop the hammer then you want to stop your attacker, permanently.

Even wounding an attacker leaves someone to testify against you and attorneys have shown their ability to create very outrageous but convincing arguments.

FWIW

danf_fl 05-20-2011 02:07 PM

The idea of self defense is to stop the attack. Sometimes, just having a weapon to show is enough to stop it.

I don't like to explain what happened.

c3shooter 05-20-2011 05:40 PM

Not that anyone asked me for my opinion (and that has never stopped me anyway)

1. There is no such thing as a NON LETHAL firearm projectile. Term is "Less Lethal". Folks have died after being shot with blank ammo, beanbags, birdshot, and the wadding of a shotshell.

2. There is no humane way to shoot anyone with a firearm.

3. Birdshot is for birds. Unless you are trapped in an Alfred Hotchcock movie, lose the birdshot.

4. If I am being attacked, my goal is not to kill him (it). It is to STOP my attacker. If the sucker bleeds out or dies of shock 10 minutes after he killed me, that just takes all the fun out of the day.

5. The pattern of a shotgun at 15 ft is MUCH smaller than you might think, unles you have a shotgun with a 6 inch barrel. They put sights on them for a reason, and they will not scour a hallway clean of intruders if you point in their general direction and pull the trigger.

6. I DO have handgun shot loads- 22 Mag, 38 Special, and 45 ACP. For snakes. At 10 feet. people are much thicker, and require something heavier to penetrate.

canebrake 05-20-2011 06:41 PM

The term "azzhat behind the counter" doesn't begin to classify this idiot!

He has no grasp of the gravity of a personal defense situation. He obviously has never experienced said situation because he's still breathing. (More like taking up space.)

I've said it before and here I go again. "It's a pesonal defense weapon for Christ sake, NOT a Public Service Announcement."

If your "GO" criteria is met, the job is to stop the threat, NOT scare or persuade it to go away!

I think the true test one must pass prior to any thoughts or actions are to proceed to personal defense with a firearm is an affirmative response to this question: "Do I have the moral mettle to take a life?"

If you can not muster a rapid response in the positive, you should rethink the use of firearms for PD. Get a dog, preferably a BIG dog.

Jesse, you should have asked the azzclown if he is familiar with the training term "shoot to failure"? It has nothing to do with firearm malfunction but rather threat remediation.

IOW, "Don't shoot the BG until you think he's dead, shoot him until he thinks he's dead." This is black and white. He wants to kill you and your response must be to stop him from being successful! If that means shoot him to the deck and continue to shoot until his clothes catch fire, so be it.

Use your head (your most powerful weapon) and only draw and fire your weapon to save you or someone’s life. This is the only righteous shooting. Anything else will find you in a cage or a box. Long before you put yourself in the ‘shoot’ position, you better have completed all the legal requirements that allow you to be there.

Read this before you decide to carry, and if you have, read it again. It's that important!

We are neither a vigilante nor a hired gun, just a survivalist.

orangello 05-20-2011 07:27 PM

What? Birdshot was good enough for VP Cheney.


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