Arguments against NOT carrying a revolver - Page 27
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #261
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3 15 round mags of 9mm us NATO ball ammo don't forget that. That's another reason we soldiers carry so much our ammo is not sd ammo it's all ball ammo. I hit a Jordanian aqiq guy 9 times center mass with my m9 and he didn't go down until my buddies 249 spoke to him at close range.

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Old 09-30-2013, 12:13 PM   #262
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3 15 round mags of 9mm us NATO ball ammo don't forget that. That's another reason we soldiers carry so much our ammo is not sd ammo it's all ball ammo. I hit a Jordanian aqiq guy 9 times center mass with my m9 and he didn't go down until my buddies 249 spoke to him at close range.
you're making the wrong comparison. civilians are not locked into carrying only FMJ ammo. we have greater choices. i agree, that if all i had were FMJ ammo, i'd want a much heavier payload of ammo!
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:29 PM   #263
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you're making the wrong comparison. civilians are not locked into carrying only FMJ ammo. we have greater choices. i agree, that if all i had were FMJ ammo, i'd want a much heavier payload of ammo!
I know I agree I'm just expanding on what the guy above me said about 3 15 round m9 mags and 240 rounds for the m4
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:34 PM   #264
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Saying civilians can carry whatever ammo they want where soldiers are limited by stupid conventions that only protect one side that's not ours. The only people I ever saw carrying sd ammo in the military were spec ops guys, mps in garrison at West Point, and snipers who carried match grade ammo everyone else carried NATO ball

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Old 09-30-2013, 12:42 PM   #265
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I know I agree I'm just expanding on what the guy above me said about 3 15 round m9 mags and 240 rounds for the m4
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Saying civilians can carry whatever ammo they want where soldiers are limited by stupid conventions that only protect one side that's not ours. The only people I ever saw carrying sd ammo in the military were spec ops guys, mps in garrison at West Point, and snipers who carried match grade ammo everyone else carried NATO ball
i fully understand. the military has to play by rules when it comes to ammo, that civilians don't.

that why when people try and compare the 9mm ammo carried by soldiers to what a civilian can use is a wrong comparison.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:10 PM   #266
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:35 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seancslaughter
3 15 round mags of 9mm us NATO ball ammo don't forget that. That's another reason we soldiers carry so much our ammo is not sd ammo it's all ball ammo. I hit a Jordanian aqiq guy 9 times center mass with my m9 and he didn't go down until my buddies 249 spoke to him at close range.
I disagree. Law enforcement carries 3 15-18 round magazInes with JHP ammo. So do special forces. And if infantry could carry JHPs, they would still carry 3 pistol mags.

The only way a pistol stops someone on the first shot is:

a) They gave up cuz it hurt/scared them

b) A direct strike to the CNS.

Jacketed hollow points increase the size of the permanent wound cavity, which causes more bleeding and increase your chances of striking a vital area or blood vessel with a normal shot.

That's pretty much it. They work a little faster. But not fast enough to allow you to toss aside your extra mags in a combat scenario.

In testing:
147 grain 9mm federal HST expands to .69" making a larger wound channel than .45 ball.

Of course 230 grain .45ACP federal HST expands to .89" which creates the largest permanent wound cavity I've found in common self defense calibers.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:48 PM   #268
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My 9 shots hit his heart and lungs the rounds left very tiny entrance exit wounds because it was NATO ball if I had been using hydro shok rounds that would have not been the case because the hydrostatic shock would have caused more damage and most likely dropped him as it was a cns shot is very difficult all you have is the head and the spine not a very big target plus I was trained to shoot center mass not head shots

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Old 09-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by seancslaughter
My 9 shots hit his heart and lungs the rounds left very tiny entrance exit wounds because it was NATO ball if I had been using hydro shok rounds that would have not been the case because the hydrostatic shock would have caused more damage and most likely dropped him as it was a cns shot is very difficult all you have is the head and the spine not a very big target plus I was trained to shoot center mass not head shots
Just about everybody is trained to shoot center mass. Hydrostatic shock has minimal effect at handgun velocities. I personally know of a female officer who unloaded an entire Glock 19 magazine of JHP ammo into a guys chest, the coroner later stated his heart exploded. He closed the distance and inflicted fatal wounds to her with a butcher knife before he bled out/lost enough oxygen in his brain to drop unconscious. I was at the funeral.

That's the point of my post: CNS shots are difficult and JHPs aren't magical. In a combat situation you still need the extra ammo. Because absent a CNS shot, the guy still has control of his motor functions until he loses a given percentage of blood in his body. All JHPs do is speed that up a little.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 09-30-2013, 05:47 PM   #270
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If someone could guarantee me I would never need more than 6-8 rounds quick, fast and in a hurry! And I would never face multiple attackers or be in the middle of a shooting rampage that seems to happen at least every month in this country! I will trade my semis in tomorrow and carry a wheel gun!! Until I see such a guarantee with logic and proof, I'm carrying large capacity semis! Even that does not guarantee I will get out of those situations but clearly it would give me the best chance over a 6 shooter!
How many times to date have you even needed one round? But you still carry, and you carry what makes you feel confident, correct? In addition to a spare mag or two. Do you also carry a pocket flashlight, tactical fighting knife, other "force multipliers"? Maybe a 2nd gun altogether...

Many folk carry much to much un-needed crap IMHO ; basically If you need suspenders to keep your pants up then you may need to rethink your situation a bit....

So why would you need someone else's guarantee's? A revolver is just as good as a semi auto in relation to the operator. A snub revolver carries fairly well concealed, and with the invent of speed strips carrying 12 extra rounds is hardly noticeable. A complete shooter IMHO would be comfortable with either carry option.

I grew up with revolvers, and they were my primary duty weapons, until ultimately The Departments I worked for adopted the Semi-Auto's ("capacity arguments" were the initial mantra's) so I'm comfortable with either platform.

As I've stated before revolvers are less prone to "mechanical malfunctions"
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