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Old 12-03-2009, 03:40 AM   #31
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I'm a North Carolina Criminal Justice Education & Training Commission CCH (Concealed Carry Handgun) Instructor. I'm the guy that trains, test and certifies those desiring to obtain a CCH permit. To be an CCH Instructor, I first had to be a certified pistol instructor and then complete a law course at the North Carolina Justice Academy. All states should cover their state laws as well as North Carolina. Georgia requires no training at all - just a background check. Kind of like giving a driver's license to a kid that has never been behind the wheel.

If you carry a handgun - there are two battles to be won, first on the street and then in the court room. We never staggered our handgun rounds nor do I know of any departments that do. Many stagger riot gun rounds. The riot gun that I bought through the Sheriff's Dept. when I was a deputy many years ago now resides in my gun safe. I don't like shotguns for home defense. I don't believe that you would have a problem in court if you used staggered rounds. In our student manual, I state DO NOT USE RELOADED ROUNDS so some attorney can't say that you super hot killer bullets. Also whoever reloaded them may have been short of reloading knowledge. However, I reload my carry rounds (Winchester cases, federal primers, AA#5 powder and 230 gn Speer Gold Dots. Any test will reveal all my rounds will be loaded to a muzzle velocity slightly below factory ammo so no one can say that I loaded super hot killer bullets. Actually, all bullets are "killer bullets" that's what bullets are designed to do.
As for staggering rounds: 30% to 40% of hollow points DON"T expand. The gold dot continues to be one of the rounds at the top of the selection list for law enforcement agencies. How often does a civilian have to shoot through a door or windshield? It could be harder to explain how that person posed a lethal threat to you. 90% of all civilian shooting incidents is a 5 feet or less.

If you have a concealed carry permit and leave your home without your sidearm, how do you know that today you won't need it to save your life. When I walk through the woods around my home, my carry handgun is a S&W 686 Plus loaded with jacketed soft points to a velocity of 1450 fps. When I open my front door, I might find a black bear on my deck (they like to check out bird feeders.) I've had them approach with 8 feet, but never in a threatening manor.

North Carolina is a open carry state, but cities can forbid that in their jurisdictions. You can walk into Walmart with a S&W 500 and nobody will give a second look. I don't believe in open carry so we don't publicize that.

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Old 12-03-2009, 11:14 AM   #32
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As a CCW instructor you must know that not one single person has been charged for using home rolled ammo.

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:26 AM   #33
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There is no law against carrying reloaded ammunition so it is something that you can not be charged with, but lawyers will use anything against you that they can scare up, be it valid or not. They will try to make you look predigest, radical, not properly trained, blood thirsty, etc, to try to make you look bad.

I see that you have read LtCol Grossman's book "On Combat". Everybody that carries a weapon should read it, both civilian and police. Becoming a warrior is not something that happens over night - it's a lifelong endeavor. There are always more books and articles to read, more training goals to be met and much more to learn. Anyone that thinks that they know it all is on dangerous ground. I taught my first handgun class in 1959 and have been training military, police and civilians ever since and there is something new that I can learn everyday.

I would like to invite all who read this to participate in the NRA's Marksmanship Qualifications Program. You don't have to be a NRA member to participate, but all of you should be.

There's a cat in my lap and a dog at my feet. Life is good.

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:56 AM   #34
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Has there ever been a case where their choice in home rolled ammo has been anargument?

No I do not know everything, but I know crap when I smell it. (ie the claim about home rolled)

I have said before that I use HST.

Yeah Ive read all of the Colonel's books

I did text this topic to a guy Ive been dating and he found it ammusing. But I guess that is to be expected from a blood sucker in Texas.

I have a few interesting papers on this subject at the house. Ill post them when I get home on Sat.

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Old 12-04-2009, 04:03 AM   #35
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I don't know if you have had the opportunity to listen to LTC Grossman speak but he is an incredible motivational speaker. I've had the good fortune of hearing him give speaches on two separate occasions, once in 1997 in Ft. Lewis, WA and again as a guest speaker in 1998 at the military junior college I attended. He is an awesome warrior, educated speaker, and I respect him highly. If you ever have the opportunity to hear him give a speach jump on it. You will not regret it.

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Old 12-04-2009, 04:12 AM   #36
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Also, having combat experience in Iraq, taking a life is not something anyone should look forward to doing. I will defend my family and home from any badguy and will not hesitate to shoot them if they are a threat but I caution anyone who does not use an escalation of force as the situation dictates. I understand that some situations require immediate action and to that I am all about not being a victim but if there is a clear opportunity to use non-lethal force to remove a threat then that should be your primary option. Lethal force should ALWAYS be a last resort. I would hate to see any of you be victimized by the legal system in the event an overzealous attorney has any shred of evidence indicating the use of lethal force MAY NOT have been necessary. BTW, I haven't even touched the topic of the psychological ramifications of the use of lethal force, I will leave that to LTC Grossman.

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Old 12-04-2009, 04:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kusterleXD View Post
Also, having combat experience in Iraq, taking a life is not something anyone should look forward to doing. I will defend my family and home from any badguy and will not hesitate to shoot them if they are a threat but I caution anyone who does not use an escalation of force as the situation dictates. I understand that some situations require immediate action and to that I am all about not being a victim but if there is a clear opportunity to use non-lethal force to remove a threat then that should be your primary option. Lethal force should ALWAYS be a last resort. I would hate to see any of you be victimized by the legal system in the event an overzealous attorney has any shred of evidence indicating the use of lethal force MAY NOT have been necessary. BTW, I haven't even touched the topic of the psychological ramifications of the use of lethal force, I will leave that to LTC Grossman.
Well Put!! kusterleXD
Stated Truth. Couldn't say it any better myself.
You hit on the points that I was trying to drive home about liability.
Thank-you.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
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BTW, I haven't even touched the topic of the psychological ramifications of the use of lethal force, I will leave that to LTC Grossman.
One thing, please remember that he has never seen combat.

While I am a fan of his, I am also a critic.
There are several problems with some of his theories. While I agree in premise with his book "On Killing" much of the data collected that forms his opinions is flawed. Like the numbers he uses from WWII. The units used to give a number for thoes who fired their weapons came primaraly from arty units an other support roles.
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:47 PM   #39
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What does his data on how many soldiers fired their weapon in WW II have to do with the psychological aspects of taking another human's life? Additionally, would you rather him speculate as to how many soldiers actually fired their weapon or use what data he can gather to support his theories? My unit was never polled nor was ammo counted to determine how many soldiers actually fired their weapons in combat. I'm pretty sure there isn't much statistical data actually being collected in the heat of battle so he is forced to rely on what little data there is. As with all books, there will be some errors in it, it is up to the reader to discern those errors and gather their own conclusions.

Also, last time I checked, artillery is not a support unit, it is a combat arms unit, they aren't called the king of battle for no reason.

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Old 12-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #40
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It relates because his whole stance on the state of mind after combat stems from impropely comducted research from that era.

I wish that I could articulate myself better, but that is difficult to do when posting from my phone. If you can wait. I will be home tomorrow, and will try to offer a more detailed explination.

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