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-   -   21 ft. Rule (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/21-ft-rule-105422/)

jjones45 03-24-2014 08:31 PM

21 ft. Rule
 
I was way watching one of my favorite shows the other day called "Justified" and there is this criminal who since his introduction this season always challenges armed personnel with a large knife and the infamous 21ft rule. Now I know this is a tv show with Hollywood stamps all over it but it got me to thinking. I remember on best defense or some other show a while back they put together a scenario where an armed knife attacker is coming at a civilian carrying a gun from 21ft. They all took turns and sadly all pretty much failed miserably while trying to deploy their weapon and move away from the attack, with one guy falling down completely out of control. I know of the tactics that one could use like side step and such but I hadn't really practiced this type defense until I seen this episode. Considering we need another person to help us train for this type situation kind of makes this hard for some of us, but I highly recommend practicing this with the wife or friends at least a couple of times. Please use air soft pistols and plastic knifes by the way!!!! Thought I would say this just in case some safety nazi can't figure out a safe way to do this without giving me a hard time. I know there are many variables that can't be accounted for like the size, speed and determination or the attacker or the skill of the gun holder(extreme ex.. Bob Munden). And I know attacks on average are at much closer distances which really makes me wonder. I really believe I couldn't achieve success without tactics like off hand shielding or side stepping. Just out of curiosity, how do you think you would fair vs. an attacker in a 21ft rule scenario?


Never enough guns or ammo

rjd3282 03-24-2014 08:36 PM

Kind of makes a good case for open carry doesn't it.

jjones45 03-24-2014 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjd3282 (Post 1538848)
Kind of makes a good case for open carry doesn't it.


I agree, but with practice the time of weapon deployment from cc or oc is minimal. This is not an oc vs. cc argument. I searched the web and found some instances where armed people were killed by knife attacks so it does indeed happen. How do you feel about this "21 ft rule"? BS or do you think it's legitimate?


Never enough guns or ammo

danf_fl 03-24-2014 09:22 PM

"Just out of curiosity, how do you think you would fair vs. an attacker in a 21ft rule scenario?"
Considering the size of my kitchen and what accuracy my wife has with dishes,



Not much

John_Deer 03-24-2014 09:31 PM

I saw a YouTube video of test. He could draw his weapon and fire an aimed shot at a 6" target in around 1.4 seconds open carry. It took him 1.6 seconds to fire the same Glock 19 concealed appendix carry. If you practice you can draw a gun pretty fast from anywhere.

I know there are people here at FTF that can draw their gun and get off an aimed shot in .25 seconds. I have been told numerous times how fast people can draw their pistol. I have been frieght trained by people that can draw a pistol and fire it faster than I can shoot a shotgun I am holding in my hands. My question for them is why haven't they replaced Jerry Miculek?

rjd3282 03-24-2014 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjones45 (Post 1538859)
I agree, but with practice the time of weapon deployment from cc or oc is minimal. This is not an oc vs. cc argument. I searched the web and found some instances where armed people were killed by knife attacks so it does indeed happen. How do you feel about this "21 ft rule"? BS or do you think it's legitimate?


Never enough guns or ammo



I think it's a legitimate concern. I wasn't trying to make an oc vs. cc argument, just making the point that sometimes "minimal" is the difference between life and death. I just hope a jury understands the 21 ft. rule. You shoot a guy who has a knife at 21 ft. they might just feel that wasn't self defense.

danf_fl 03-24-2014 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_Deer (Post 1538889)
I know there are people here at FTF that can draw their gun and get off an aimed shot in .25 seconds. I have been told numerous times how fast people can draw their pistol. My question for them is why haven't they replaced Jerry Miculek?

Some of us just want to let Jerry have all the glory. :)

rifleman1 03-24-2014 09:36 PM

Mythbusters did this don't bring a knife to a gun fight and showed that a knife can beat a gun easily.

therewolf 03-24-2014 09:40 PM

IMO, you can lose the advantage very quickly,

if you are not aware of your surroundings.

In any event, a CC isn't a bulletproof shield,

or any guarantee you'll live to 100.

How much are you willing to prep and practice?

How fast is your rig, to begin with?

How well can you take care of yourself

without a gun?

jjones45 03-24-2014 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjd3282 (Post 1538891)
I think it's a legitimate concern. I wasn't trying to make an oc vs. cc argument, just making the point that sometimes "minimal" is the difference between life and death. I just hope a jury understands the 21 ft. rule. You shoot a guy who has a knife at 21 ft. they might just feel that wasn't self defense.


Well I'm not gonna shoot anybody at 21 ft, but if I'm involved in a self defense shooting it's damn sure because the bad guy was in the act of attacking me.


Never enough guns or ammo


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