Update on well-known Ga. homeowner/burgler shooting... - Page 2
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:24 PM   #11
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I had heard of the incident on the news but up to now I wasn't aware of the caliber weapon the homeowner was using. Now I'm worried because what my wife has at home for her protection when I'm not there is a snub nose 357 loaded with Hornady critical defense 38 special +p. Shes good at the range using the 38 cal round but under distress things change. If it would have been her, would she have been able to stop him with 38 cal round? Maybe I should load it up with 357 Hornady critical protection?
I'd never considered the .38 Special to be anything but a "full powered" defensive cartridge... especially in +P.

The fact that this guy survived 5 hits, walked downstairs, and drove away, leads me to believe that many of the hits were grazing wounds... or to "non vital" areas.

Personally, I would still err on the side of arming your wife with a cartridge she's comfortable with. If she handles .38 +P's, I'd chalk this shooting up to the "fluke" factor and keep things as they are.

We had a thread here awhile back with an article written by a retired County Coroner. This guy had been digging slugs out of corpses for 30+ years... and was an avid shooter. Even after 30 years, he stated he was still unable to determine the differences in entry wound, exit wound, or wound cavities, among the "major" calibers, until he actually found the slug... with his list of "major" calibers being, .38 Spc, .357 Mag, 9 mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.

He stated there was "significantly" less damage with the mouse gun calibers of .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380.

Personally, I've never had a shoot a human with a handgun... and hope I never do... but I do like to listen to those with more experience than I, and apply that knowledge.

Tack
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:34 PM   #12
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I hope this doesn't cause too many nightmares for her in the future, but the fact that she was protecting her kids should make it easier.
I'm sure the nightmares belong to the children.
The Mama made the best out of a terrible situation.

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I had heard of the incident on the news but up to now I wasn't aware of the caliber weapon the homeowner was using. Now I'm worried because what my wife has at home for her protection when I'm not there is a snub nose 357 loaded with Hornady critical defense 38 special +p. Shes good at the range using the 38 cal round but under distress things change. If it would have been her, would she have been able to stop him with 38 cal round? Maybe I should load it up with 357 Hornady critical protection?
That is what is always in my revolver at my bedside.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:38 PM   #13
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I'd never considered the .38 Special to be anything but a "full powered" defensive cartridge... especially in +P.

The fact that this guy survived 5 hits, walked downstairs, and drove away, leads me to believe that many of the hits were grazing wounds... or to "non vital" areas.

Personally, I would still err on the side of arming your wife with a cartridge she's comfortable with. If she handles .38 +P's, I'd chalk this shooting up to the "fluke" factor and keep things as they are.
I think that is probably true.

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We had a thread here awhile back with an article written by a retired County Coroner. This guy had been digging slugs out of corpses for 30+ years... and was an avid shooter. Even after 30 years, he stated he was still unable to determine the differences in entry wound, exit wound, or wound cavities, among the "major" calibers, until he actually found the slug... with his list of "major" calibers being, .38 Spc, .357 Mag, 9 mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.

He stated there was "significantly" less damage with the mouse gun calibers of .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380.
Hmmm........when conceal carry comes to Illinois.....and if I decide to carry......it will be a .380. I'll have to think about this some more.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #14
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Am I a sociopath or bad person for finding it extremely hard to believe that I would feel any remorse or lose any sleep over ending someone's life who was in my home uninvited and knowingly so, most likely with ill intent? Even if it was only to protect myself and no one else was there? They may mean me no harm and just be after money or jewelry, but the fact that they knowingly broke into my house isn't exactly grounds for me giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm assuming the worst and acting accordingly.

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Old 04-03-2013, 04:54 PM   #15
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I had heard of the incident on the news but up to now I wasn't aware of the caliber weapon the homeowner was using. Now I'm worried because what my wife has at home for her protection when I'm not there is a snub nose 357 loaded with Hornady critical defense 38 special +p. Shes good at the range using the 38 cal round but under distress things change. If it would have been her, would she have been able to stop him with 38 cal round? Maybe I should load it up with 357 Hornady critical protection?
To be very specific, in this case the lady did in fact stop the assailant. Nobody in the family was harmed, and to the best of my knowledge nothing was taken from the house except some lead. This does not mean that it couldn't have turned out differently.

One of the stories I read said he was shot in both lungs, the head, and the liver. That alone should have taken him down, but it didn't. Why? We'll never know, but it concerns me. Over the course of my career I have personally seen people shot in the head with a .38 and not even end up with a skull fracture, let alone a penetrating injury. Have I seen more effective results with a .38? Yes, I have. I have seen more people out of the fight than I have seen walking around, but that walking around part scares me. This lady was empty and he was still capable of a fight.

With that said, I armed my daughter with .357s. She is very precious to me, and I want her to have something I have a fair amount of confidence in. If she gets a good hit or three the odds are fairly high it should bring things to some sort of an end.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #16
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Tack,

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The fact that this guy survived 5 hits, walked downstairs, and drove away, leads me to believe that many of the hits were grazing wounds... or to "non vital" areas.
One story (Fox news) detailed the hits as head/face, both lungs, and liver. Another story (abc news) reports a family member saying he got hit in the lungs, liver, and stomach. I normally wouldn't call the lungs and liver grazing wounds, or non-vital areas. My thoughts are inadequate penetration.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:10 PM   #17
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To be very specific, in this case the lady did in fact stop the assailant. Nobody in the family was harmed, and to the best of my knowledge nothing was taken from the house except some lead. This does not mean that it couldn't have turned out differently.

One of the stories I read said he was shot in both lungs, the head, and the liver. That alone should have taken him down, but it didn't. Why? We'll never know, but it concerns me. Over the course of my career I have personally seen people shot in the head with a .38 and not even end up with a skull fracture, let alone a penetrating injury. Have I seen more effective results with a .38? Yes, I have. I have seen more people out of the fight than I have seen walking around, but that walking around part scares me. This lady was empty and he was still capable of a fight.

With that said, I armed my daughter with .357s. She is very precious to me, and I want her to have something I have a fair amount of confidence in. If she gets a good hit or three the odds are fairly high it should bring things to some sort of an end.
Well, said...

I think most of us understand that being armed with a handgun... any handgun... it being "barely armed". With this in mind we strive to carry the "most" capable cartridge that we can A. handle accurately, and B. conceal effectively.

Personally, I'm done carrying anything smaller than 9 mm, which I understand is subjective but it's based on my research, my 17 years of EDC, and from reading coroners papers and listening to EMT's I've met.

The home is a different story and there is no reason to handicap ourselves with ANY handgun when concealment is not a concern and long guns are soooo much more effective.

1 blast from a round of 00 Buck would have delivered 9 .32 pellets, 6 to 9 inches deep and at a spread of no more than 4 inches given "interior" engagement distances... and I've never seen or heard of anyone continuing an attack after being hit with this load.

Hmm... Maybee Uncle Joe was "1/2 right" anyway.

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Old 04-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #18
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Tack,

I've always preferred the #1 buck. Lighter pellets, and maybe less penetration, but I figure putting more pellets into the same area would make more of a mess. To me it seems logical, but I know many disagree with me, and I accept that.

Uncle Joe right? Come on now. Shame on you. <grin>
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:42 PM   #19
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I think that is probably true.

Hmmm........when conceal carry comes to Illinois.....and if I decide to carry......it will be a .380. I'll have to think about this some more.
No. No. No. Nothing smaller than 9mm. Better 40sw or 45acp.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:49 PM   #20
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To be very specific, in this case the lady did in fact stop the assailant. Nobody in the family was harmed, and to the best of my knowledge nothing was taken from the house except some lead. This does not mean that it couldn't have turned out differently.

One of the stories I read said he was shot in both lungs, the head, and the liver. That alone should have taken him down, but it didn't. Why? We'll never know, but it concerns me. Over the course of my career I have personally seen people shot in the head with a .38 and not even end up with a skull fracture, let alone a penetrating injury. Have I seen more effective results with a .38? Yes, I have. I have seen more people out of the fight than I have seen walking around, but that walking around part scares me. This lady was empty and he was still capable of a fight.

With that said, I armed my daughter with .357s. She is very precious to me, and I want her to have something I have a fair amount of confidence in. If she gets a good hit or three the odds are fairly high it should bring things to some sort of an end.
This scares me because I had always regarded 38 special as a pretty good round. After all, it was widely used by law Inforcement for many years and dropped for semi-autos with more round capacity and faster reload. But now I'm starting to doubt it effectiveness. I'd be interesting to know what type of round the homeowner was using.
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