Sure. NY Gun Control Laws work PERFECTLY! - Page 5
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:58 PM   #41
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Oh, for the love of Pete, do not let the new generation here you talking like this. All you would see is heads tilted to the left or right like puppies and their eyes glazing over.

I think that I have driving 16 penny nails on my drivers license from back in the day.


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Manual labor is much like any type of self defense training. It forces you to focus your energy. Walking on bouncing or small scaffolding is great for building your balance. Try standing on top of a 2x4 wall. Then bend over and drive a 16 penny nail into a top plate.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #42
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Would I have drawn a weapon in this scenario?

Highly Doubt It. This appeared to be a personal beef between 2 men. It actually looked to me like the victim was "looking" for the shooter by the way the shooter ducked into the McD's and the victim appeared to be looking into every shop he passed before reaching McD's.

It also looked as thought the victim immediately went to his waist band before being hit and beginning his "stop, drop, and roll" maneuver.

For all we know, the victim may have been armed and looking to kill the shooter. Possibly mouthed of about it, and alerted the shooter to his intentions.

This could easily be a case of self defense where the intended victim got he drop on an assailant he knew was coming.

My point here is that a CCW does not us Cops anymore than a Fire Extinguiser makes us Firemen.

So...if I were a bystander in this situation, I would seek cover, evaluate the threat, then decide, and only shoot if MY life were in immediate danger OR the situation progressed to an "active shooter" scenario where the gunman was engaging random targets.

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Well this is a case of someone NOT following the law.

Here is the million dollar question however: if you are carrying a concealed weapon (legally of course) standing in the street, and you see this start to unfold, do you just start shooting? One has to assume there are people inside the McDonalds, and as the video shows, there are people scattered all over the sidewalk. No clear line of fire (especially with a handgun) that will allow a "clean" shot. (by "clean" I mean that you wouldn't just as likely kill an innocent person here). Sure, If I was stationed where the camera was, with my Remington 700, I could put one in the shooters' right ear every time.

I am just curious what folks think they would do if they were carrying in a situation like this. It's similar to the folks who say the will take their pistols into movie theaters now, because of the Aurora, Colorado shooting. There, it was dark, there was a flash/smoke grenade, no clear idea where the shooter was for most of the time. Do you just start blazing away, putting bullets into the backs of the moviegoers in front of you?

I don't claim to have the answers, and I own 5 guns so I am most definitely not anti-gun by a long shot (pardon the pun). And I think New Yorks' Mayor is an idiot.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:07 PM   #43
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This could easily be a case of self defense...
Exactly. It could be anything. The shooter could be a plainclothes cop. Point is, if you don't know WTF is going on, you stay out of it.

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My point here is that a CCW does not us Cops anymore than a Fire Extinguiser makes us Firemen.
CCW laws in most states stress just that point...and I would hope in most cases common sense would be our guide.

Keep in mind, too, since we are talking threat assessment, that statistically in the course of your daily routine you are far more likely to meet an unarmed threat than an armed one. A road rage incident, a drunk guy...you know what I'm talking about. And you can't meet an unarmed threat with deadly force. I taught an unarmed combat and self-defence course for about ten years back in my younger days and I am a firm believer that basic physical fitness and knowing a few key moves or take-downs is just as important to your security as carrying a weapon.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:46 PM   #44
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Well, to be honest, the true stories about someone defending themselves appropriately with a concealed handgun are oh so few and oh so far between.

If I had to guess, and if we could get a 100% honest poll? Most people carry their handguns because they just plain think it is cool, and that their gun is cool. I get it it. If I could walk around with my remington 700 slung on my back, I would! (on occasion).

(Not to open a can of worms here, but I'll bet my next year's paycheck that George Zimmerman would not have lost his life had he been sans handgun. What I think is, the gun made him feel empowered to start some s#@t with a skinny little kid, and things got out of hand......)

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Old 10-25-2012, 08:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by chloeshooter View Post
Well, to be honest, the true stories about someone defending themselves appropriately with a concealed handgun are oh so few and oh so far between.

If I had to guess, and if we could get a 100% honest poll? Most people carry their handguns because they just plain think it is cool, and that their gun is cool. ... I get it
No, I am afraid you don't "get it".

You are either very young, or you do not read/listen to the news.

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"We've documented 2,160 stories of self-defense with guns since May 2007 – the same time frame the VPC used," said Burnett. "When it comes to concealed carry permits, we have 153 documented cases across 26 states with at least 550 lives saved."
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/research-concealed-carry-and-guns-save-lives

And that is only ONE study. It doesn't take into account multiple other studies on the same topic with much further reaching data.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:06 PM   #46
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No, I am afraid you don't "get it".

You are either very young, or you do not read/listen to the news.



http://www.opposingviews.com/i/research-concealed-carry-and-guns-save-lives

And that is only ONE study. It doesn't take into account multiple other studies on the same topic with much further reaching data.
well, I read the news everyday Sir, and I'm 49 years old. so much for your assumptions.

one can always find some study somewhere to support their point of view. I'll likely not change yours any more than you are likely to change mine.....
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #47
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The numbers don't lie.

Perhaps some investigation before you make a statement like the one above would serve you better than painting with such a wide brush.

If there were no cases of people using legally obtained, CCW to save lives, do you not think the Left would have been using that to ban permits for, oh I don't know, the last 30-40 years?

Generally by the time people have been given grants and have "PhD" behind their names, the studies are pretty valid.

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dillinger
The numbers don't lie.

Perhaps some investigation before you make a statement like the one above would serve you better than painting with such a wide brush.

If there were no cases of people using legally obtained, CCW to save lives, do you not think the Left would have been using that to ban permits for, oh I don't know, the last 30-40 years?

Generally by the time people have been given grants and have "PhD" behind their names, the studies are pretty valid.

Dr. John Lott -
Gosh what was I thinking? Appreciate the lecture
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:33 PM   #49
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well, I read the news everyday Sir, and I'm 49 years old. so much for your assumptions.

one can always find some study somewhere to support their point of view. I'll likely not change yours any more than you are likely to change mine.....
I suggest you read several different news sources than just the liberal leaning news sources that only try and get 'their agenda' across.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:36 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by chloeshooter View Post
Well, to be honest, the true stories about someone defending themselves appropriately with a concealed handgun are oh so few and oh so far between.

If I had to guess, and if we could get a 100% honest poll? Most people carry their handguns because they just plain think it is cool, and that their gun is cool.
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Gosh what was I thinking? Appreciate the lecture
I'm not sure you were, but free education comes in forms around here.
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