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Old 10-15-2012, 07:52 PM   #21
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Here is the million dollar question however: if you are carrying a concealed weapon (legally of course) standing in the street, and you see this start to unfold, do you just start shooting?


Negative, unless the shooter's indiscriminately killing everybody around him and you think by jumping in you have a chance at stopping the carnage. If your life isn't in direct peril you don't need to get involved in somebody else's one-on-one grudge match. Anytime you pull that piece you better have a good reason for it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:02 PM   #22
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If your life isn't in direct peril you don't need to get involved in somebody else's one-on-one grudge match. Anytime you pull that piece you better have a good reason for it.
1) I bear no grudge or disagreement with this position. It is both wise and likely to keep you out of a discussion with the cops.

But I have to ask.

Do you, therefor, feel no level of requirement to do "something" in the event the person in question is spraying up the area?

Example: You are in the parking lot of your local Gas-n-Sip and there is a pick up game next door in a public park. As you are getting out of your truck to go into the store, a car pulls up and one or two heavily armed shooters get out and start spraying up the players and the people watching.

There is no "right" or "wrong" answer, just merely wondering.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:11 PM   #23
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1)
Example: You are in the parking lot of your local Gas-n-Sip and there is a pick up game next door in a public park. As you are getting out of your truck to go into the store, a car pulls up and one or two heavily armed shooters get out and start spraying up the players and the people watching.
I don't think there is enough information given here. Plus there's that whole "fog of war" thing - it's always easy to say what you WISH you would have done, after the fact and you replay the situation in your mind time after time. What if the guys doing the drive by have a kid in the back seat? What is they are in fact firing blanks, as a part of a mis-guided prank? What if your fire draws THEIR fire in your direction, killing a kid in a stroller on the side lot of the Gas-n-Sip?

IMHO, armed vigilante justice and/or non-police armed responses have as much danger as armed criminals themselves. Law enforcement officials receive hundreds of hours of formalized training (not just shooting their guns at the range) to deal with these situations, and still sometimes get it wrong. Simply stated, I don't think civilians carrying firearms prevents bad things from happening. Protecting one's self is a whole different ballgame than playing cop!
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:25 PM   #24
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Well I think that just underlines the whole point.

What-If ?

What if is a really scary term because of the possible ramifications either way.

The question then becomes: Do you only feel compelled to carry for your own, immediate, personal safety? Thus are an island unto yourself?

Would you be comfortable, forever, looking back with an armchair experts' view on a day where you could have made a mistake or could have made a difference?

As I said, there is no right or wrong answer, but it should beg questions of each of you as to why you carry.

JD

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Old 10-15-2012, 08:41 PM   #25
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I might just try to run the gunmen over with my

truck, while their attention was on the defenseless mob

at the game.

Of course, then we'd all be seeing a lot more "truck

control " laws...

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Old 10-15-2012, 09:21 PM   #26
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"What if" really is a huge question and the only real answer is what the exact situation dictates with the specific players in the action. I dont think anyone with any sense would predispose themselves to answer a life and death situation without living it.

Too many variables, my urge will always be to say I would try to make the best choice and if returning fire was that, thats what I would do. I dont believe in sound shots, gotta have a target before I pull the trigger. Other than that, the choice to shoot or not seems better to me than doing the Dying Cockroach.

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Old 10-16-2012, 01:53 PM   #27
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Well this is a case of someone NOT following the law.

Here is the million dollar question however: if you are carrying a concealed weapon (legally of course) standing in the street, and you see this start to unfold, do you just start shooting? One has to assume there are people inside the McDonalds, and as the video shows, there are people scattered all over the sidewalk. No clear line of fire (especially with a handgun) that will allow a "clean" shot. (by "clean" I mean that you wouldn't just as likely kill an innocent person here). Sure, If I was stationed where the camera was, with my Remington 700, I could put one in the shooters' right ear every time.

I am just curious what folks think they would do if they were carrying in a situation like this. It's similar to the folks who say the will take their pistols into movie theaters now, because of the Aurora, Colorado shooting. There, it was dark, there was a flash/smoke grenade, no clear idea where the shooter was for most of the time. Do you just start blazing away, putting bullets into the backs of the moviegoers in front of you?

I don't claim to have the answers, and I own 5 guns so I am most definitely not anti-gun by a long shot (pardon the pun). And I think New Yorks' Mayor is an idiot.
It really depends. Im no longer in law enforcement i have no duty to act as one. It really depends on where its going down. In new york my life is not at risk, my wife's isnt at risk the person getting shot has to take his chances.

In wisconsin i will do what i can to help someone in distress.

The military doesnt even train to shoot with no target firing randomly into a crowd. From all reports he was clearly visible coming through the back doors and open to be shot by an armed citizen. Theaters arent flat and every seat has a clear view line of fire to the exit door. Unless they have different kinds if theaters than the ones ive ever been to of course. One person with gun seeing an armed guy come in could have made the difference hitting him or not.

Smoke works both ways. If the goblin can see his victims the victims can see the goblin.

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Can you, or
Clearly attempting to take out all three by myself would end in a Russian Theater quality bloodbath, with mine included.
.
The hostage deaths in the russian theater were caused by the rescue personel putting the anaesthatized hostages on their backs. They choked to death on their tongues.

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1) I bear no grudge or disagreement with this position. It is both wise and likely to keep you out of a discussion with the cops.

But I have to ask.

Do you, therefor, feel no level of requirement to do "something" in the event the person in question is spraying up the area?

Example: You are in the parking lot of your local Gas-n-Sip and there is a pick up game next door in a public park. As you are getting out of your truck to go into the store, a car pulls up and one or two heavily armed shooters get out and start spraying up the players and the people watching.

There is no "right" or "wrong" answer, just merely wondering.
You have no duty to anyone but your family and yourself. Everything else is a personal choice. If im in a gun friendly state and the oppurtunity to save lives without causing harm comes up i will do my best. Especially if i have one of my ar15. Two shots two dead goblins. Its not hard to hit a target with training if no one is shooting back and i have a good rest.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:16 PM   #28
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The hostage deaths in the russian theater were caused by the rescue personel putting the anaesthatized hostages on their backs. They choked to death on their tongues.
It was 129 people and most died in the theater, not being rescued. The point was tryin to take on three armed men by one's self would lead to anothe high body count, not that they would be poisoned.

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You have no duty to anyone but your family and yourself. Everything else is a personal choice. If im in a gun friendly state and the oppurtunity to save lives without causing harm comes up i will do my best. Especially if i have one of my ar15. Two shots two dead goblins. Its not hard to hit a target with training if no one is shooting back and i have a good rest.
A I said, it's a choice only you can make and you won't know until it is happening. No one can say what they will or will not do.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:44 PM   #29
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Hmmm. Does anyone else see the perp (red-shirt) looking back as he walks along AND just before he enters McDs? I think he was waiting until the victim got to the door and then started shooting. IMO something else triggered this 'ambush'. Possibly an argument earlier in the day?
Also, I tend to agree with Therewolf. The inhabitants of NY (I won't call them citizens because they have been disarmed) have ALLOWED themselves to be made into helpless victims by the politicians they have elected.

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by chloeshooter View Post
Here is the million dollar question however: if you are carrying a concealed weapon (legally of course) standing in the street, and you see this start to unfold, do you just start shooting? One has to assume there are people inside the McDonalds, and as the video shows, there are people scattered all over the sidewalk. No clear line of fire (especially with a handgun) that will allow a "clean" shot. (by "clean" I mean that you wouldn't just as likely kill an innocent person here).
The only true answer to this question is this: "I will do what I have to do when I have to do it".

I cannot sit here watching the instant replay of Bloomburg stupidity and say "Yep, I would shoot".
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