Neighbor sees 60 year old attacked and grabs his gun instead of his phone! - Page 3


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Old 07-05-2014, 10:58 PM   #21
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:04 PM   #22
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If three low lives are beating my neighbor (best guy in the world) I'm not flub-dubbing around with a phone! I'm armed and I'm going to end this NOW! Let the chips fall where they may! Good friends are hard to come by, they don't let you down and you don't let them down period!



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Old 07-05-2014, 11:20 PM   #23
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If three low lives are beating my neighbor (best guy in the world) I'm not flub-dubbing around with a phone! I'm armed and I'm going to end this NOW! Let the chips fall where they may! Good friends are hard to come by, they don't let you down and you don't let them down period!
And that's fine. I am just pointing out that legally its not as black and white as some think, after that its up to them. I think the advice below is good advice I don't think many could argue with that.

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let me emphasize that it behooves you to learn about
the system of law under which your state operates. Knowledge is power, and when
you decide to use a gun in defense of others, the more knowledge you have, the
more likely you are to avoid mistakes
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:32 PM   #24
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Default All valid points and opinions

Also remember, in some States, if you see someone in need of help and you do nothing, you could be criminally liable, as well as civilly liable.

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Old 07-05-2014, 11:37 PM   #25
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Also remember, in some States, if you see someone in need of help and you do nothing, you could be criminally liable, as well as civilly liable
Have you a link for the laws you describe, also ringing the police and trying to help the individual is not doing nothing.
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:48 PM   #26
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Default Like anything ..there are two sides to this

First, look at the situation. Its his neighbor. Hopefully he could distinguish if it is his wife and kids beating the guy or strangers. If he has in a split second determined they are not people he has seen, there is a real threat in the form of an assault in-progress, he can by some state laws be covered by "defense of others"

If he is wrong and say it was family members and HE (the 60 year old) started it, the shooter is still covered because all he did was stop a crime (assault) in progress. Criminally, he is covered,

Now civil suit on the other hand. They could all turn around and sue him because it was a domestic case - perhaps pleading they caught the man molesting a child inside. He would have some issue defending himself for taking action (he would still be in the right) but civil case juries are a whole different breed.

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Old 07-05-2014, 11:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by manta View Post
And that's fine. I am just pointing out that legally its not as black and white as some think, after that its up to them. I think the advice below is good advice I don't think many could argue with that.
Legally it is much more black and white than you think it is. In many states, Defense of another is a totally justifiable reason to use deadly force.
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:53 PM   #28
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Legally it is much more black and white than you think it is. In many states, Defense of another is a totally justifiable reason to use deadly force.
It is here.
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:07 AM   #29
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Legally it is much more black and white than you think it is. In many states, Defense of another is a totally justifiable reason to use deadly force.
No its not, if you don't know what the situation is and interviewing shooting someone you could end up in jail . Its at best bad advice to post what you have posted, someone might take it as gospel and follow the advice and end up in jail. In this case it might have being justified, that doesn't mean that would be the in a similar case. Read bellow I think its good advice.

Quote:
Issues about the initial aggressor
come up in prosecutions for
assault if the person survives or
in murder or manslaughter cases
if the person dies. If the judge
trying the case believes that you
started the altercation, he or she
is allowed by law to withhold
a self-defense instruction to the
jury. The jury then does not get
to decide if you were justified in
using deadly force. If you are claiming self defense and the judge refuses to give a
self-defense jury instruction, you are pretty much sunk, at least for that trial and
subsequent conviction.
The above also applies to someone that got involved in an incident . Say three people beating up a 60 year old, if you get involved and shoot someone and it is shown later that the 60 year old was the original aggressor then you could end up in jail.

Quote:
suppose that you are walking down the street
in an urban setting and you come across two people beating up a third person.
All three are strangers to you. If you immediately intervene, perhaps by pointing
your gun at the people you believe are assaulting the third individual, you might
be found guilty of assault yourself, because you didn’t really know enough about
the situation to stand in the third person’s shoes. Do you know if he started the
fight? What if a knife is now hidden beneath his body, and moments before you
stumbled upon the scene he had threatened the others–the people you are now
Quote:
let me emphasize that it behooves you to learn about
the system of law under which your state operates. Knowledge is power, and when
you decide to use a gun in defense of others, the more knowledge you have, the
more likely you are to avoid mistakes
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manta View Post
Families would never get into a fight and start throwing punches. ? Before you know it they could be accusing you of murder. My point be careful what you get involved in it could come back to bite you. Just my opinion , if you would do the same in a similar situation go for it. I thought that in some states you had to be in fear for your life before you used lethal force am I wrong. ?
defense of someone else by lethal force is legal and defendable if it is determined that a crime was in progress. beating of a 60 year old by threee thugs is OBVIOUSLY a crime. how the beating started is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
On the other hand you could stand back and do nothing until the victim is killed, because you feared you might get in trouble. Good luck looking at yourself in the mirror every morning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYD View Post
Also remember, in some States, if you see someone in need of help and you do nothing, you could be criminally liable, as well as civilly liable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manta View Post
Have you a link for the laws you describe, also ringing the police and trying to help the individual is not doing nothing.
in wisconsin you can be held legally liable for doing nothing. even as far as being charged the same as the thugs doing the beating.

on paper it looks to be a justified shoot. most likely the three thugs were in and out of prison or out on bail at the time of the attack. i dont know for sure but statistically violent criminals are never first timers and usually started with theft or drugs.

anyway i would have grabbed a gun first as someone can suffer permenant brain injury or death in seconds from getting beaten especially older people. wasting time on hold with 911 the old guy would be either dead or permantly brain injured.

our prisons are chock full to the gills with criminals that should have been shot dead in the commission of their crime. i dont believe in rehabilitation. there is more evidence that rehabing criminals is totally useless and a waste of resources than there is that proves smoking causes cancer... yet we continue to waste money rehabing scum and get bent out of shape falling over each other in concern because some random scumbag was shot by a citizen while he was trying to rob someone.

anytime a goblin is stopped by a citizen its a service to society not something we need to question and get all bent about


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Last edited by JonM; 07-06-2014 at 12:20 AM.
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