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Old 10-08-2012, 03:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jjfuller1 View Post
perhaps its true we need a slower, calm down time after returning home. to be honest i have no good answer.
IMO, you have the makings of a GREAT answer.

The Fed has to stop treating our returning

Veterans like used up dishrags. It has a

disastrous effect upon them, and dishonors the

memory of all our former soldiers...
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:35 PM   #22
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For what it's worth JJ, I think a lot of here are glad you made the right decision too.

You nailed it on the head when you said that troops just think it's part of their duty and "their cross to bear".

We have heard those phrases time and again from troops that finally got involved with WWP in one way or another. They got to spend time with other guys who have been there and done that, so it's not like they are asking some civilian doctor about stuff, they are talking to trained professionals who are also combat veterans.

The speed at which a combat soldier can return to civilian society is mind blowing when you factor you go from super hyper tension alert to back in the states in a day or three depending. How someone can just shut that off frankly baffles my mind.

When I came back from KoreaI slept for most of the first week back and had to mentally re-train myself for being here in the States again. There was no one shooting at me or any high adventure when I was overseas and I still felt like a fish out of water for a few days when I got back. I can't imagine what it must be like for these brave men and women.

Back on topic though, all this is going to do is push up other suicide attempts, it does deal with the root cause of the issue. They need to get more trained help for these guys and gals and they need to start getting that help as soon as they are ready to leave over there and think about coming home.

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Old 10-08-2012, 03:58 PM   #23
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The numbers of people who can do that are shockingly small and these upswings in suicides are a result of not getting to talk to the right people soon enough.

Being a hard charging, tough attitude having, bad ass doesn't go hand in hand with reaching out to someone to talk about your feelings with, which is why a lot of these brave individuals suffer in silence until their guilt becomes too much to bear.
Bingo!!

For decades the US military and politicians fought the diagnosis of PTSD. The issue of TBI came up in 2006 when the head of military troop brain injury research gave a presentation stating that thousands of troops had undiagnosed brain injuries. Rumsfeld shot the messenger and asked congress to cut funding for the research of traumatic brain injuries. Congress did just that.

http://www.armytimes.com/legacy/new/0-ARMYPAPER-2014452.php

i know dozens of troops and veterans who have pulled multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. Many have PTSD and/or TBI. Yep, some have both.
Congress is raising hell because the Pentagon has denied active duty troops access to cognitive rehabilitation therapy.

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/20/132145959/pentagon-health-plan-wont-cover-brain-damage-therapy-for-troops

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During the past few decades, scientists have become increasingly persuaded that people who suffer brain injuries benefit from what is called cognitive rehabilitation therapy — a lengthy, painstaking process in which patients relearn basic life tasks such as counting, cooking or remembering directions to get home.

Many neurologists, several major insurance companies and even some medical facilities run by the Pentagon agree that the therapy can help people whose functioning has been diminished by blows to the head.

Tricare is an insurance-style program covering nearly 4 million active-duty military and retirees. It is refusing to pay for a therapy that teaches life basics, otherwise known as cognitive rehabilitation, to troops with traumatic brain injuries.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:05 PM   #24
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It would seem that todays military, to some extent, are a bunch of kids still playing thier video games in a time of war.......Just like teens they text every body and anybody that will go along with thier rant. They are caught up in a fantacy world. The U.S. military is caught between a bannana peel and an ice flow. My advice to these kids, Grow Up.......My respects to all those that have fought and died.....To all the others, you made your bed,sleep in it. You have no one to blame but your self......
Yep, lets just blame the troops for the injuries they suffered in war. After all they signed their names on the dotted line. One of these decades the chickenhawks will demand another war and no one will come.

Armchair hawks will sit at their keyboards and beat the drums for war but there won't be enough volunteers to fight that war and the US will lose big time. We will deserve that fate for the shabby way we have treated our combat veterans.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #25
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All I'll ask is ten percent, and we will kick every bodys arse. That is the 10% That will fight for true freedom.........&&&& the rest.....You either fight for the polit buro or you fight to win, there is no retreat........And there is no quater given.....

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Old 10-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jjfuller1 View Post
to the topic, its crazy that its even being considered seperating firearms (a tool) from the owner.. to where the discussion has gone. i have never said this before but, i have had personal expriences with this issue. now dont razz me i know it was wrong and im over it now. i have held a loaded firearm to my chin on several occasions. finger on the trigger ready to do it. something inside of me just wouldnt let me leave my family knowing what i did and i think that is about the only thing that saved me. why i did it? i think it was a mix of things. as stated a lot of the veterans could be labelled depressed by the docs. and many dont seek help. we see, do all thats asked of us and then we just bottle it up inside. could be because we think we look weak to ask for help. could be we believe its just part of our burden. could be that we are searching for that feeling we get during a firefight, or tense situations. i think thats a BIG reason why alot of young men come home and by a crouch rocket. its a very tough thing for me to be able to really say or describe what i was feeling or thinking. im just very glad i did not go through with it. i think its something thats been around a long time, and will probly still be an issues 1000 years from now. perhaps its true we need a slower, calm down time after returning home. to be honest i have no good answer.
Like JD said, we are glad you didn't follow through and I would like to thank you for your service ... and for sharing your troubles with us <MUCH RESPECT>
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jjfuller1 View Post
to the topic, its crazy that its even being considered seperating firearms (a tool) from the owner.. to where the discussion has gone. i have never said this before but, i have had personal expriences with this issue. now dont razz me i know it was wrong and im over it now. i have held a loaded firearm to my chin on several occasions. finger on the trigger ready to do it. something inside of me just wouldnt let me leave my family knowing what i did and i think that is about the only thing that saved me. why i did it? i think it was a mix of things. as stated a lot of the veterans could be labelled depressed by the docs. and many dont seek help. we see, do all thats asked of us and then we just bottle it up inside. could be because we think we look weak to ask for help. could be we believe its just part of our burden. could be that we are searching for that feeling we get during a firefight, or tense situations. i think thats a BIG reason why alot of young men come home and by a crouch rocket. its a very tough thing for me to be able to really say or describe what i was feeling or thinking. im just very glad i did not go through with it. i think its something thats been around a long time, and will probly still be an issues 1000 years from now. perhaps its true we need a slower, calm down time after returning home. to be honest i have no good answer.
Thanks for sharing that jj, and thank you and all the rest of you who have served. As an individual who was unable to I am grateful that all of you have been able to step up and carry the load for me and others who have not served. Deeply appreciated.

I am glad that you did not follow through, and you are absolutely correct in that suicide is hardest on the family and loved ones left behind. I hope those words reach more people considering suicide (veterans or not) as it is definitely the truth. It solves absolutely nothing.

It does take guts to kill yourself, but it probably takes ten times them guts to tell people that you are in need of help, and then to follow through and receive it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:12 PM   #28
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Thanks guys. Still scares me that I was so close and almost um phased by it. It's something I've kept very quiet. I'm super happy I've gotten to play with my daughter. Wifey was prego when this happened. It's a very real problem. Unfortunately unlike myself my cousin ( also a marine)overdosed two years ago. I saw the effect it holds.

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Old 10-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #29
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Take a rational look at the numbers according to the National Institute of Mental Health. The civilian suicide rate has traditionally been higher than comparable military rates and only recently have military suicides climbed higher. But not by much. Since 2008:

Civilian suicides per year per 100,000 = 19.2
Military suicides per year per 100,000 = 20.0

The numbers aren't as alarming as the hysterical anti-military MSM wants you to believe they are, and even less so when you consider military life often entails long separations from loved ones, multiple deployments, dangerous duty and low pay.

On an unrelated topic, I strongly disagree with this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by willshoum View Post
It would seem that todays military, to some extent, are a bunch of kids still playing thier video games in a time of war.......Just like teens they text every body and anybody that will go along with thier rant. They are caught up in a fantacy world. The U.S. military is caught between a bannana peel and an ice flow. My advice to these kids, Grow Up.......My respects to all those that have fought and died.....To all the others, you made your bed,sleep in it. You have no one to blame but your self......
I think our military--and in particular our young Soldiers and Marines in the combat arms MOS's, and their young NCOs and officers--are more professional and competent than at any time in our nation's history. They are well-trained, tough and proud. Unfortunately there will always be REMFs and Pogues and Fobbits and sh*tbirds who don't pack the gear who whine and bitch and file VA claims for disabilities they don't have who make it all the much harder for the truly deserving. But make no mistake, they are in the minority. Americans can take pride in their military.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:32 PM   #30
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Thanks guys. Still scares me that I was so close and almost um phased by it. It's something I've kept very quiet. I'm super happy I've gotten to play with my daughter. Wifey was prego when this happened. It's a very real problem. Unfortunately unlike myself my cousin ( also a marine)overdosed two years ago. I saw the effect it holds.
JJ, it took a lot of courage to open up like you did and give us a personal perspective into this problem. thank you for that and thank you for serving our country. i have the highest amount of respect for you for doing it. hopefully there comes awareness into this and soldeirs that have these problems can get the help they deserve and can adjust back into a civilian life. i will say this about you, you are a class act IMO.
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