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Old 10-08-2012, 01:00 PM   #11
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Maybe I am just "old Corps" but people are responsible for their own lives. One of my fellow recruits jumped from our second story barracks and broke his arm. Our senior DI sauntered up and commented--"well, he didn't try to commit suicide or he would have landed on his head". We have raised a nation of pansies who are killing themselves when they cannot stand a bit of pressure. Teen age suicide is the leading cause of death for them. We as parents cannot beat the s--- out of kids w/o going to jail. We are daresome to even shout at them for fear of hurting their tender sensibilities(according to the PHDs). When my Marine recruiter visited my workplace and heard my Dad hollering and fussing about the job he commented--"you will have no problem at Parris Island". I did not because I was brought up hard and taught to deal with life's problems early on.

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Old 10-08-2012, 01:18 PM   #12
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It would seem that todays military, to some extent, are a bunch of kids still playing thier video games in a time of war.......Just like teens they text every body and anybody that will go along with thier rant. They are caught up in a fantacy world. The U.S. military is caught between a bannana peel and an ice flow. My advice to these kids, Grow Up.......My respects to all those that have fought and died.....To all the others, you made your bed,sleep in it. You have no one to blame but your self......

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Old 10-08-2012, 02:38 PM   #13
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The US Army is ill equipped to deal with the problems these soldiers have. Once a soldier is discharged or retired it gets worse because VA funding is subject to the whims of the political hacks who sent those troops off to war. This political appointee puke said veterans benefits are hurtful to national security:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2005/01/27/veterans-benefits/
Therein lies the problem. What our armed services need to do is to "improvise, adapt and overcome" the problem. Veteran suicides have always been a problem, but as time has gone on the problem has gotten worse. The battlefield is now on our shores and the military needs to address it accordingly. The war is not over for our veterans once they get back home, this has been true as long as there have been wars. The military needs to get their collective head out of their collective ass and figure out how to equip themselves to take care of our veterans when they get home and have mental issues that might lead to suicidal tendencies. It is an epidemic now.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:41 PM   #14
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It would seem that todays military, to some extent, are a bunch of kids still playing thier video games in a time of war.......Just like teens they text every body and anybody that will go along with thier rant. They are caught up in a fantacy world. The U.S. military is caught between a bannana peel and an ice flow. My advice to these kids, Grow Up.......My respects to all those that have fought and died.....To all the others, you made your bed,sleep in it. You have no one to blame but your self......
The military has no choice but to work with what they have as far as recruits are concerned. The reality is that many of today's recruits are not the same as they were 40 years ago. That's the way it is and it does not absolve the military from their responsability.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:49 PM   #15
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The problem is that it's much simpler, and cheaper,

for some jackheel to step up and say: "Now, you see,

there go those evil guns again, convincing people to

commit suicide..."

It makes a great sound bite, which the libturd media eats right up,

and by laying the blame elsewhere, the government doesn't have to

face the cost of giving proper care to their now used, and by

Pentagon standards, ready to discard, Veterans...

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Old 10-08-2012, 02:51 PM   #16
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Maybe I am just "old Corps" but people are responsible for their own lives. One of my fellow recruits jumped from our second story barracks and broke his arm. Our senior DI sauntered up and commented--"well, he didn't try to commit suicide or he would have landed on his head". We have raised a nation of pansies who are killing themselves when they cannot stand a bit of pressure. Teen age suicide is the leading cause of death for them. We as parents cannot beat the s--- out of kids w/o going to jail. We are daresome to even shout at them for fear of hurting their tender sensibilities(according to the PHDs). When my Marine recruiter visited my workplace and heard my Dad hollering and fussing about the job he commented--"you will have no problem at Parris Island". I did not because I was brought up hard and taught to deal with life's problems early on.
So your saying the guys with PTSD that killed themselves are weak? That goes back to the Great Wars as well. While I do agree not being able to spank your kid for fear of going to jail nowadays is crazy. I think what we're seeing in the military is something that has been seen throughout history there is just more awareness about it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #17
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On topic I don't think the personal ownership of the weapon is the problem and this doesn't address the source of the issues these young men and women are facing.

One of the keys of Wounded Warrior Project, as most of you know our charity of choice in our house, is to get help to these guys and gals as soon as they come back stateside.

What is lost in all the advancements of the modern world is that not as many military members are losing their lives as in, say Vietnam, where mortality rates were extremely high.

Advances in body armor, protection, medical aid, fast travel support to real field hospitals means that more injured soldiers are living through their ordeal, but that doesn't make the mental anguish any easier to take.

The WWP has numbers stating that over 320,000 troops have come home from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with either PTSD or Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI). It is estimated that double that number have enough clinical signs to be label "depressed".

In World War 1, when the fighting was over, most of the troops loaded boats and spent a couple weeks with their buddies "decompressing and coming down" on the way home. Now these guys are in the field one day and wake up the next and they are back in our "civilized" society, with all it's pressures, and they are expected to just flip a switch go back to "normal".

The numbers of people who can do that are shockingly small and these upswings in suicides are a result of not getting to talk to the right people soon enough.

Being a hard charging, tough attitude having, bad ass doesn't go hand in hand with reaching out to someone to talk about your feelings with, which is why a lot of these brave individuals suffer in silence until their guilt becomes too much to bear.

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Old 10-08-2012, 02:58 PM   #18
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I think what we're seeing in the military is something that has been seen throughout history there is just more awareness about it.
Awareness is part of it, but a larger part (in my mind) is the fact that the face of war has changed so dramatically out on the battlefield. There are more wounded coming back from far more serious wounds on the battlefield due to advances in battlefield medical treatments and such. The more that survive from more horriffic wounds the more PTSD is going to happen. That is inevitable. Now if they could extend that medical treatment to after the battle and after the soldier comes home from deployment, then and only then will we see a change. Taking away one of the innumerable tools to suicide is not the answer. All that will do is shift the focus to a different method. Maybe overdoses. What do they do then? Take away prescription drugs?
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:06 PM   #19
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Awareness is part of it, but a larger part (in my mind) is the fact that the face of war has changed so dramatically out on the battlefield. There are more wounded coming back from far more serious wounds on the battlefield due to advances in battlefield medical treatments and such. The more that survive from more horriffic wounds the more PTSD is going to happen. That is inevitable. Now if they could extend that medical treatment to after the battle and after the soldier comes home from deployment, then and only then will we see a change. Taking away one of the innumerable tools to suicide is not the answer. All that will do is shift the focus to a different method. Maybe overdoses. What do they do then? Take away prescription drugs?
I agree. I have a TBI from a mortar explosion and went through a bunch of $hit when I got back. I still have my bad days or weeks but everyday is a struggle and some people have it worse than me.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:26 PM   #20
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to the topic, its crazy that its even being considered seperating firearms (a tool) from the owner.. to where the discussion has gone. i have never said this before but, i have had personal expriences with this issue. now dont razz me i know it was wrong and im over it now. i have held a loaded firearm to my chin on several occasions. finger on the trigger ready to do it. something inside of me just wouldnt let me leave my family knowing what i did and i think that is about the only thing that saved me. why i did it? i think it was a mix of things. as stated a lot of the veterans could be labelled depressed by the docs. and many dont seek help. we see, do all thats asked of us and then we just bottle it up inside. could be because we think we look weak to ask for help. could be we believe its just part of our burden. could be that we are searching for that feeling we get during a firefight, or tense situations. i think thats a BIG reason why alot of young men come home and by a crouch rocket. its a very tough thing for me to be able to really say or describe what i was feeling or thinking. im just very glad i did not go through with it. i think its something thats been around a long time, and will probly still be an issues 1000 years from now. perhaps its true we need a slower, calm down time after returning home. to be honest i have no good answer.

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