Don't mess with a man of God who's packing!! - Page 5
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:58 PM   #41
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he did use it to produce compliance of the robber. talking softly and having a pistol carries more weight that just talking softly!
I'm sorry, but we're never going to agree on this. If we were arguing this from the viewpoint where the pastor had shot and killed the robber, and later found out the kid was armed with a spoon in a sack, we would all be sitting here justifying the pastors actions. The pastor would be a hero for saving the clerk and defending himself from what he thought at the time was a life and death situation. Heck, we would all be shouting from the rooftop about what a hero this man of the cloth was, and how he is typical of all second amendment supporters.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:06 PM   #42
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I'm sorry, but we're never going to agree on this. If we were arguing this from the viewpoint where the pastor had shot and killed the robber, and later found out the kid was armed with a spoon in a sack, we would all be sitting here justifying the pastors actions. The pastor would be a hero for saving the clerk and defending himself from what he thought at the time was a life and death situation. Heck, we would all be shouting from the rooftop about what a hero this man of the cloth was, and how he is typical of all second amendment supporters.
my position is that he detered further action by the robber. that doesn't mean i feel you are wrong and he was right. but the fact is it turned out fine for all involved. and i agree with what you said it could have turned out bad for him because he didn't shoot the robber.

it's one of those situations, that i fully believe there isn't really right or wrong position to this.

i fully respect and understand what you're saying and your viewpoint, just we are seeing it from differnet positions. luck or instinct, it turned out alright for everyone involved. in the end that is what is important. a LAC with a gun etered further criminal behavior and the BG went to jail. IMO, that's a happy ending in my book.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:30 PM   #43
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I'm sorry, but we're never going to agree on this. If we were arguing this from the viewpoint where the pastor had shot and killed the robber, and later found out the kid was armed with a spoon in a sack, we would all be sitting here justifying the pastors actions. The pastor would be a hero for saving the clerk and defending himself from what he thought at the time was a life and death situation. Heck, we would all be shouting from the rooftop about what a hero this man of the cloth was, and how he is typical of all second amendment supporters.
i would not have faulted this man if he shot the robber.

however, i think IF he had....it would have been a worse situation for all involved. #1) he has to deal with the guilt of killing an unarmed person, whether his fault or not #2) this situation is NOW splashed all over the media as a gun toting preacher shot an unarmed person #3) which leads to this being another instance of twisting a story to make gun owners look bad #4) a person is dead without trial or defense. #5) the preacher could have been brought on charges, costing him and his family dearly

all i'm trying to say is it came out for the best for ALL in THIS instance. i feel whatever you may think about it, this gun owner made the BEST decision in this scenario...

instead of "WHAT IFS".....lets focus on "WHAT IS".......he stopped the crime and no one was hurt.....this is the case of a WIN-WIN-WIN situation imo.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:35 PM   #44
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and when i think of all trained professionals who use a gun for defense....i feel none are encouraged to "shoot first" as a thought....be it military, police, whoever....

i agree if a firearm is draw, you should be PREPARED to use if necessary. i don't think you should WANT to use it however.....

be prepared for the worst, hope for the best imo....and the best situation that can happen if you draw a gun in defense, is that it makes its point without leaving a hole through a human being.

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Old 10-26-2013, 07:13 PM   #45
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i would not have faulted this man if he shot the robber.

however, i think IF he had....it would have been a worse situation for all involved. #1) he has to deal with the guilt of killing an unarmed person, whether his fault or not #2) this situation is NOW splashed all over the media as a gun toting preacher shot an unarmed person #3) which leads to this being another instance of twisting a story to make gun owners look bad #4) a person is dead without trial or defense. #5) the preacher could have been brought on charges, costing him and his family dearly

all i'm trying to say is it came out for the best for ALL in THIS instance. i feel whatever you may think about it, this gun owner made the BEST decision in this scenario...

instead of "WHAT IFS".....lets focus on "WHAT IS".......he stopped the crime and no one was hurt.....this is the case of a WIN-WIN-WIN situation imo.

At no point have you heard me say anything remotely indicating I'm sorry the bad guy lived. Keep that in mind when I say this. The preacher's actions go against everything common sense tells you to do in this situation. Now, let's address your points one by one.

#1. The guilt. At the time he entered that store he had every reason to believe an armed robbery was in progress. If he didn't, why did he have his firearm in his hand? I'll go one further and say any reasonable man would have also believed an armed robbery was in progress given the same set of observations.

#2. So? You refuse to look at anything except what happened after the altercation. Look at the altercation itself and tell me he was right in not firing at someone bringing a weapon to bear.

#3. Against a man of God? Who are you trying to kid? I can see the promo spot now. Priest Saves Clerk In Blazing Gun Battle. Film at 11.

#4. Call it like it really would have been. An armed robber is dead without trial and defense. A pastor and a store clerk are still alive.

#5. You are kidding, right? The punk says he has a gun. He threatens the clerk with what he says is a gun. He turns toward the priest bringing what he says is a gun to bear. Guess what. Whether he had a gun or not, if a reasonable person would have believed he had a gun, then he had a gun. You have the right to defend yourself with deadly force.

Now, we'll address your first statement. If you wouldn't have faulted the man if he had fired, why are we arguing this crap?
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:12 PM   #46
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OK, I'm through with this thread. Y'all have a nice day.

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Old 10-26-2013, 10:36 PM   #47
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OK, I'm through with this thread. Y'all have a nice day.
Ditto... Sorry I ever posted it. It seems anything said around here lately starts a freekin' war. I'm outta here.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:51 PM   #48
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Ditto... Sorry I ever posted it. It seems anything said around here lately starts a freekin' war. I'm outta here.
I don't think it's a war. We as members have different acceptable levels of risk. Personally I'm not willing to take the risk, regarding this particular situation, that there is not a firearm in the bag. I believe personally in taking the path that gives me the best chance of keeping my life. For me that path would've been to shoot the threat.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:45 AM   #49
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At no point have you heard me say anything remotely indicating I'm sorry the bad guy lived. Keep that in mind when I say this. The preacher's actions go against everything common sense tells you to do in this situation. Now, let's address your points one by one.

#1. The guilt. At the time he entered that store he had every reason to believe an armed robbery was in progress. If he didn't, why did he ha Smilies
ve his firearm in his hand? I'll go one further and say any reasonable man would have also believed an armed robbery was in progress given the same set of observations.

#2. So? You refuse to look at anything except what happened after the altercation. Look at the altercation itself and tell me he was right in not firing at someone bringing a weapon to bear.

#3. Against a man of God? Who are you trying to kid? I can see the promo spot now. Priest Saves Clerk In Blazing Gun Battle. Film at 11.

#4. Call it like it really would have been. An armed robber is dead without trial and defense. A pastor and a store clerk are still alive.

#5. You are kidding, right? The punk says he has a gun. He threatens the clerk with what he says is a gun. He turns toward the priest bringing what he says is a gun to bear. Guess what. Whether he had a gun or not, if a reasonable person would have believed he had a gun, then he had a gun. You have the right to defend yourself with deadly force.

Now, we'll address your first statement. If you wouldn't have faulted the man if he had fired, why are we arguing this crap?
i understand your points. but i think this might have been another media circus against CC carriers if he had shot a guy dead who did not have a gun and did not attack. zimmerman had a far better case for self defense than that and still found himself on a murder charge. many media outlets want to spin a story...if they get an anti-gun AND anti-religion story as well....

i would not have faulted him for firing....i think in this case NOT firing worked out the best for all involved. could it have been different or ended up worse? sure, but it wasn't and it didn't. that's it.

it seems that we are in a war? ....so i'll let it go. i thought we were just having a discussion. sheesh!

maybe we should all stick to discussing the weather around here?
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:55 AM   #50
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Yeah its getting nuts around here. On this thread you've got guys saying the pastor SHOULD have shot the guy with a bag in his hand. On the other thread you've got guys saying the cops SHOULDNT have shot the kid with what looked exactly like an AK in his hand. And all sides ready to go do pistols at dawn.

For what its worth, in this case the guy's a man of God. Anybody ever consider that maybe he felt like God was telling him not to shoot?

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