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Old 10-26-2013, 02:46 PM   #31
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a gun is a deterrent to a crime perhaps more often than it is used in defense.

i know TWO people who have pulled a gun in a self defense situation....in BOTH instances the aggressors backed off instantly and NO SHOT was fired.

do some people here WANT a person to get shot? stopping the crime without killing anyone is ALMOST always the best scenario, especially when we are only talking about someone attempting to simply take money.
if carrying a pistol deters a criminal act without having to be fired or shooting someone, then it has done it's job IMO. carrying a pistol is about being protected and the ability to defend yourself, not about shooting people.

my mindset is that i am prepared to shoot to defend myself, but if the presentation of that gun deters further intent on their part, then so much the better. if a person isn't mentally prepared for the possiblity of taking a life or shooting someone in self defence, then they have no business carrying in the first place. guns are not meant to be used to wound, but to stop the threat as quickly as possible.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:01 PM   #32
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I used to live in a big city, and had several incidents that caused me to draw my gun. But I was fortunate in that the BG's decided to disappear and I didn't have to shoot.
One such incident was when I was getting a divorce, and was kinda po' and was living in a cheap apartment in the inner city. It was 13 blocks from where I worked, so I could walk to work. One night in winter, I walked to a Steak-N-Shake fast food place, also 13 blocks away. I ate my burgers then proceeded to walk home. It was about 10 p.m., and there was little traffic on the street. I noticed a really tall guy across the street in sweat clothes "jogging" in the same direction I was going. He was going the same speed I was, and staying directly across the street from me. Then, he suddenly ran faster, got about 100 yards ahead, crossed onto my side of the street, and ducked into the doorway of an abandoned National Guard Armory building. As I approached the building, I stayed close to the curb. All at once, he popped out of the doorway, and said, "Say, how's it going?", in what was obviously the voice of an "alternative life style" entity. I ignored him and kept walking, but he kept up with me and kept trying to get a conversation going. I told him to leave me alone. Then he ran on down the street and disappeared. When I got to my apartment building and went in via the front door, I had to stop inside a little entry hall, get out the key to the inside door, and unlock it so I could go into the hallway that accessed the apartments. As I was getting out my key, in popped "Precious". He said, "Say, do you drink Bacardi Rum?" I said no. He was trying to position himself so if I opened the door he could go through it before I could. He said, "Do you have any hobbies?" That was the last straw. I said, "I have one hobby - making .44 caliber holes in f-gs who won't take no for an answer". Then I pulled my Charter Arms Bulldog .44 SPL out of my coat pocket. He went out the outside door like a bolt of lightning and disappeared. I was truly prepared to shoot him if he hadn't left. I found out a few months later that he had been a serious neighborhood nuisance, and had died of AIDS. He was a lot bigger than me, and I'm most thankful that I had a gun and a permit to carry.

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Old 10-26-2013, 03:05 PM   #33
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if carrying a pistol deters a criminal act without having to be fired or shooting someone, then it has done it's job IMO. carrying a pistol is about being protected and the ability to defend yourself, not about shooting people.

my mindset is that i am prepared to shoot to defend myself, but if the presentation of that gun deters further intent on their part, then so much the better. if a person isn't mentally prepared for the possiblity of taking a life or shooting someone in self defence, then they have no business carrying in the first place. guns are not meant to be used to wound, but to stop the threat as quickly as possible.
i agree it is carried for the possibility of protection and deterrence by use of the firearm. however, i still say in MOST cases, that if the firearm is presented and it ends the threat w/o a shot, this is the overall best situation for all involved. both morally and legally.

it still cracks me up just a bit: all the "big talkers" in here who state "i would kill a man to defend myself in second!" yet....i still remember how many people said they could barely stand the sight of that video where a dog was shot and was flailing and death jerking.......what do y'all think it looks like when a human and flailing and screaming and jerking and crapping themselves after YOU have shot them? things like this likely don't tend to just vanish from your memory. you BETTER be sure that in your mind, you justify that killing 100%. go back and look at that thread and the mebers reactions, and this was a dog!

thus pastor probably has "thou shalt not kill" very much on the mind. i think his goal was to end the possibly of harm for anyone. thus, the thought "shoot first" was probably not his mentality. in THIS scenario, it worked out for the best.

remember, the most devote and faithful christian should have NO FEAR of death. if you are prepared, death is the reward for a life of serving the lord. just a thought when y'all start talking WWJD stuff.....
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:19 PM   #34
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i agree it is carried for the possibility of protection and deterrence by use of the firearm. however, i still say in MOST cases, that if the firearm is presented and it ends the threat w/o a shot, this is the overall best situation for all involved. both morally and legally.

it still cracks me up just a bit: all the "big talkers" in here who state "i would kill a man to defend myself in second!" yet....i still remember how many people said they could barely stand the sight of that video where a dog was shot and was flailing and death jerking.......what do y'all think it looks like when a human and flailing and screaming and jerking and crapping themselves after YOU have shot them? things like this likely don't tend to just vanish from your memory. you BETTER be sure that in your mind, you justify that killing 100%. go back and look at that thread and the mebers reactions, and this was a dog!

thus pastor probably has "thou shalt not kill" very much on the mind. i think his goal was to end the possibly of harm for anyone. thus, the thought "shoot first" was probably not his mentality. in THIS scenario, it worked out for the best.

remember, the most devote and faithful christian should have NO FEAR of death. if you are prepared, death is the reward for a life of serving the lord. just a thought when y'all start talking WWJD stuff.....
i agree. the taking of a human life, even that of some scumbag looking to do evil is nothing to take lightly. and if the presence of a gun deters a criminal act, then so much the better.

i am not in the least squeamish at the sight of blood, either mine or others!

instincts are something imprinted upon our DNA as a means of survival. the huge problem is that most people don't pay attention them when they should be. i know personally, that everytime i ignored my gut instincts or those hairs standing up on the back of my neck, bad things happened to me. i listen to my instincts and pay heed to them. they have saved my butt from bad things every time.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by hawkguy View Post
a gun is a deterrent to a crime perhaps more often than it is used in defense.

i know TWO people who have pulled a gun in a self defense situation....in BOTH instances the aggressors backed off instantly and NO SHOT was fired.

do some people here WANT a person to get shot? stopping the crime without killing anyone is ALMOST always the best scenario, especially when we are only talking about someone attempting to simply take money.
Do I want the aggressor to get shot? Well, no. In fact, I don't even want the aggressor to be aggressive. However, he was in the process of committing an armed robbery, so I guess he was aggressive. When he started turning and swinging the "gun" toward the pastor it was past time to deter, and time to defend.

It's easy to sit here with 20/20 hindsight and say the pastor was right, but unless he was 100% sure that the article in the bag could not harm him, the pastor was wrong. He could have been dead wrong.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:28 PM   #36
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Do I want the aggressor to get shot? Well, no. In fact, I don't even want the aggressor to be aggressive. However, he was in the process of committing an armed robbery, so I guess he was aggressive. When he started turning and swinging the "gun" toward the pastor it was past time to deter, and time to defend.

It's easy to sit here with 20/20 hindsight and say the pastor was right, but unless he was 100% sure that the article in the bag could not harm him, the pastor was wrong. He could have been dead wrong.
that is true to a degree. he was there, and weren't. he did what he felt was needed just as you or i would do if we were in a similiar situation.

i still think we need to pay attention to our instincts and to have an awareness of what's going on around us at all times.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:31 PM   #37
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that is true to a degree. he was there, and weren't. he did what he felt was needed just as you or i would do if we were in a similiar situation.

i still think we need to pay attention to our instincts and to have an awareness of what's going on around us at all times.
For as long as this is hashed back and forth there will always be one thought in my mind. Did he freeze? I'm guessing he is not some trigger happy punk that just wanted to show off his firearm, so why did he draw if he didn't feel threatened?
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:34 PM   #38
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For as long as this is hashed back and forth there will always be one thought in my mind. Did he freeze? I'm guessing he is not some trigger happy punk that just wanted to show off his firearm, so why did he draw if he didn't feel threatened?
he did use it to produce compliance of the robber. talking softly and having a pistol carries more weight that just talking softly!
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:36 PM   #39
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that is true to a degree. he was there, and weren't. he did what he felt was needed just as you or i would do if we were in a similiar situation.

i still think we need to pay attention to our instincts and to have an awareness of what's going on around us at all times.
Right. It's always a judgement call. Every situation is unique to itself.
I do believe that this forum (FTF) can help a member make the best decision when the time comes, by taking the advice of people here who have experienced dangerous events, and using the knowledge to help evaluate the circumstances and make good decisions.
Be careful about having an attitude that may cause you to react with extreme violence when it is not justified. The life you save may be your own.
Remember the incident this week in the news where a cop saw a 13 year old kid with a toy gun, and filled him full of holes in a big panic because he didn't take an extra 2 seconds to evaluate the situation.

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Old 10-26-2013, 04:41 PM   #40
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Right. It's always a judgement call. Every situation is unique to itself.
I do believe that this forum (FTF) can help a member make the best decision when the time comes, by taking the advice of people here who have experienced dangerous events, and using the knowledge to help evaluate the circumstances and make good decisions.
Be careful about having an attitude that may cause you to react with extreme violence when it is not justified. The life you save may be your own.
or could save a person considerable legal expenses in defending their actions.

another thing for people to consider is where they put themselves. being in not so nice places can lead to not so nice experiances.

another member made the suggestion that to me makes perfect sense. his advice was, don't go places armed that you wouldn't go unarmed.
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