Don't mess with a man of God who's packing!! - Page 2
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:57 AM   #11
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I think that the pastor was used as a tool by the big guy upstairs! So that nobody got hurt any further.

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Old 10-22-2013, 03:24 AM   #12
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it's easy for us to sit in our comfy chairs, within the relative safety of our own homes and to play monday morning quarterback to his actions that day. he was there, and we weren't. he probably did what he felt like was the right course of action.

the man was unarmed, but did the pastor know that? probably not. this man even though unarmed did just attempt a robbery, and did assault the clerk and then turned on the pastor. the pastor presented his gun and the robber complied.

i think we are forgetting that carrying a pistol is not about using it as the first option, but as a last resort. and if merely presenting it, prevents further criminal activity, then so much the better. if the mere presence of a gun prevents a criminal act without one shot fired, then it has still done it's job.

i feel IMO, he would have been justified in shooting the robber, simply because i feel that he had no real knolwdege that the man was not armed, but am glad it turned out as it did, without a person being killed.

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Old 10-22-2013, 03:33 AM   #13
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I see your point doc, but you are calling a pastor a fool for not killing an unarmed man.
And how was supposed to know what was in the bag? Good thing courts don't work like that. Using lethal force is about the info you have at that very moment, not info discovered after the incident is over.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:59 AM   #14
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And how was supposed to know what was in the bag? Good thing courts don't work like that. Using lethal force is about the info you have at that very moment, not info discovered after the incident is over.
So you think he should have shot him? See the last several posts.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:04 AM   #15
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And how was supposed to know what was in the bag? Good thing courts don't work like that. Using lethal force is about the info you have at that very moment, not info discovered after the incident is over.
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So you think he should have shot him? See the last several posts.
this is why i said there is actually not a right or wrong answer to thiis.

it's good he didn't have to shoot. but still had he shot him, by all things considered, he would have still been justified.

maybe by divine intervention, he was told not to shoot, but hold him till LEO's showed up. gut intsincts, who knows. but this fact is clear, a LAC used a firearm while carrying concealed and prevented further criminal activity and a BG went to jail. i call that one for the good guys.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:44 AM   #16
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So you think he should have shot him? See the last several posts.
If someone is robbing a store and says they have a gun, even though it's wrapped in plastic, a reasonable person would believe them to be armed.

I would believe them to be armed, and when said gun is pointed at me I would defend myself.

Now that all the info is out, it's easy to see it as a "no shoot" situation. At the time of occurrence it's obviously a "shoot" situation IMO.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #17
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I see your point doc, but you are calling a pastor a fool for not killing an unarmed man.
Under law he was not unarmed. He represented that he was armed, he had something wrapped in plastic that he said was a gun. He used that item wrapped in plastic in a manner that to a reasonable person would lead them to believe it was a gun. Guess what. Under law it is a gun. He is guilty of the forcible felony of armed robbery.

Being a forcible felony, and being that he turned to aim the "gun" at the pastor, the pastor had every reason to be in fear for his life. Why does the pastor have a carry permit? Why did the pastor have a firearm on his person? Why did the pastor draw the firearm if he was not prepared to shoot?
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:58 AM   #18
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So you think he should have shot him? See the last several posts.
If it was me in the pastor's shoes, there is an extremely good possibility that the would be robber would be suffering from gunshot wounds right now. Unless it was so blatantly obvious that the item in the bag was not a gun, I would have taken my shot before he could bring the gun to bear on me.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:25 AM   #19
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Why does the pastor have a carry permit? Why did the pastor have a firearm on his person? Why did the pastor draw the firearm if he was not prepared to shoot?
These are as important a set of questions that can be raised in this particular incident.

Say what you want about this man of God and what he did or didn't do and how right or wrong it might have been.
...But...He legally carries a firearm on his person. So he honestly should be willing to use that as a tool to save his holy bacon. ...legally permitting....Of course.
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Last edited by DrumJunkie; 10-22-2013 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Forearm? what the hell is that about?!?!??
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:51 PM   #20
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Obviously, what the pastor did was correct. He stopped the robbery and the assault, he did not shoot anyone, and he survived. Also, the BG survived, and who knows, maybe he learned something and will try working for money instead of just grabbing it.
Along the lines of stopping an assault by displaying a weapon but not shooting anyone, statistics show that 2 million similar events occur every year in the United States. I personally have had experience with that. I was perfectly willing to shoot, but it didn't turn out to be necessary, so the BG lived and so did I.

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