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Old 11-06-2012, 05:08 PM   #21
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Default I'm trying to understand YOUR position on this.

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Originally Posted by AIKIJUTSU View Post
I worked at a gun store in the mid-nineties, and the reason for the requirement for customers to not carry loaded guns in the store was because gun stores tend to attract some people who don't have the good sense to be careful with guns. They'll do stupid stuff like fast-draw routines, wave the guns around indiscriminately, sweeping the other customers and the employees, dry-fire their guns, sometimes resulting in negligent discharges. Granted, most of the customers were reasonable people, but there was always the small percentage of people who shouldn't have been there in the first place. So for the sake of safety the owner decided to have the customers leave their guns outside or to have them unloaded with the action open when they came into the shop.
Please remember that I am ASKING if this is what you meant. If NOT, then simply restate your opinion on this matter.

From your statements above, I understand that you accept the restriction of YOUR rights because "some people" do things that are wrong, illegal, stupid, etc. In fact, it appears that you think this reaction to the illegal activity of other people is the "right" thing for government OR businesses to do. Is this correct?
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by LarryinCo View Post
Please remember that I am ASKING if this is what you meant. If NOT, then simply restate your opinion on this matter.

From your statements above, I understand that you accept the restriction of YOUR rights because "some people" do things that are wrong, illegal, stupid, etc. In fact, it appears that you think this reaction to the illegal activity of other people is the "right" thing for government OR businesses to do. Is this correct?
Correct. In a place that can sometimes be chaotic and people don't act right. Not the government, but a privately owned busines. It is his property, and he has the right to restrict the activities of customers and visitors while in his store. Not all my rights, but sometimes it just makes sense, like being quiet in a library.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:45 PM   #23
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Default Then I MUST disagree.

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Originally Posted by AIKIJUTSU View Post
Correct. In a place that can sometimes be chaotic and people don't act right. Not the government, but a privately owned busines. It is his property, and he has the right to restrict the activities of customers and visitors while in his store. Not all my rights, but sometimes it just makes sense, like being quiet in a library.
This type of thinking is classic but it makes NO sense whatever. It is equivalent to "When one person misbehaves, we (society, or the specific business) must punish everyone." Specifically in this example, one person acts improperly in the gun store and the "punishment" is for all persons in the gun store to give up their right to bear arms. For an extreme example, consider that the penalty for murder is the death penalty. Using this logic we should all be given the death penalty because "some people" are murderers. I will take responsibility for MY ACTIONS and I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of those who act improperly.

I certainly agree that a business has the right to make decisions which affect their business. However, any gun shop which chooses to decree that I may not enter their shop with my legally carried firearm has, simply, lost me as a customer. I will honor their request and will NOT enter their establishment.

In case this response comes across as argumentative, I want to state that I DO NOT intend for it to be argumentative. I respect YOUR right to make up your own mind. I am simply stating MY opinion and providing some information to support my opinion.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:19 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by LarryinCo View Post
This type of thinking is classic but it makes NO sense whatever. It is equivalent to "When one person misbehaves, we (society, or the specific business) must punish everyone." Specifically in this example, one person acts improperly in the gun store and the "punishment" is for all persons in the gun store to give up their right to bear arms. For an extreme example, consider that the penalty for murder is the death penalty. Using this logic we should all be given the death penalty because "some people" are murderers. I will take responsibility for MY ACTIONS and I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of those who act improperly.

I certainly agree that a business has the right to make decisions which affect their business. However, any gun shop which chooses to decree that I may not enter their shop with my legally carried firearm has, simply, lost me as a customer. I will honor their request and will NOT enter their establishment.

In case this response comes across as argumentative, I want to state that I DO NOT intend for it to be argumentative. I respect YOUR right to make up your own mind. I am simply stating MY opinion and providing some information to support my opinion.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever asked the owner exactly what is meant by that sign?

Locally, all of our gun stores have a "No Loaded Firearms Beyond This Point" sign posted outside each entry door. When I asked about it every single store owner said that it was only enforced for the guns that people brought in that may be handled by the clerks. It did not apply to people carrying concealed weapons that intended to keep the weapon concealed. In fact, out local Gander Mountain is very specific that the empty weapon rule does not apply to concealed weapons carried by CCW holders. It says so at the bottom of the same sign.

Their logic, and I quite agree with it, is that some people are very careless when unloading guns, and they would prefer that it be done away from the store. They also request, and Florida law requires, that except for concealed weapons all guns brought into the store be securely encased. A gun rug, a plastic case, or a range bag are sufficient.

Anyway, ask your local dealer exactly what the sign's intent is. You may get a pleasant surprise.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:27 PM   #25
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I work at a home improvement store and they have a strict policy that we are not allowed to conceal carry at all. I just found out as well that if we have a gun in or car/truck we will be fired on the spot. I used to leave straight from work and go hunting. Oops lol. But I really dont understand why a bank would allow firearms to be carried in. Thats is just an advertisment for trouble as this guy trying to rob them proved. BUT at the same time I completly support conceal carry because it also proves the honest citizens can/will help by stopping the people that want to cause harm. Not to long ago a I read about a guy that tried robbing a gas station and the customer behind him put his pistol on the mans sholder and politely said "Im pretty sure you dont wanna do that sir". Unarmed him and police arrested him and no one was hurt.

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Old 11-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #26
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I have yet to see a gun buster sign on a bank.
We have an FCU in my area with gun buster signs, I just ignore them.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jb8815
I work at a home improvement store and they have a strict policy that we are not allowed to conceal carry at all. I just found out as well that if we have a gun in or car/truck we will be fired on the spot. I used to leave straight from work and go hunting. Oops lol. But I really dont understand why a bank would allow firearms to be carried in. Thats is just an advertisment for trouble as this guy trying to rob them proved. BUT at the same time I completly support conceal carry because it also proves the honest citizens can/will help by stopping the people that want to cause harm. Not to long ago a I read about a guy that tried robbing a gas station and the customer behind him put his pistol on the mans sholder and politely said "Im pretty sure you dont wanna do that sir". Unarmed him and police arrested him and no one was hurt.
The same thing would happen at a bank, just because the business is a bank doesn't mean the outcome would be different. I would think that all businesses including banks would welcome cc and oc because its a deterant to anything that could happen.

I would for sure welcome it in my store or business if I owned a business.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:57 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by LarryinCo View Post
This type of thinking is classic but it makes NO sense whatever. It is equivalent to "When one person misbehaves, we (society, or the specific business) must punish everyone." Specifically in this example, one person acts improperly in the gun store and the "punishment" is for all persons in the gun store to give up their right to bear arms. For an extreme example, consider that the penalty for murder is the death penalty. Using this logic we should all be given the death penalty because "some people" are murderers. I will take responsibility for MY ACTIONS and I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of those who act improperly.

I certainly agree that a business has the right to make decisions which affect their business. However, any gun shop which chooses to decree that I may not enter their shop with my legally carried firearm has, simply, lost me as a customer. I will honor their request and will NOT enter their establishment.

In case this response comes across as argumentative, I want to state that I DO NOT intend for it to be argumentative. I respect YOUR right to make up your own mind. I am simply stating MY opinion and providing some information to support my opinion.
That same gun store, Don's Guns in Indianapolis was in the news a couple of weeks ago. A guy tried to rob the store at gunpoint. He was shot and killed by an employee. That store sells thousands of guns each year. The store is always crowded with all kinds of people. A few years ago an employee was shot and killed (intentionally) by some nut case. I think that was when the owner decided to post the sign.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Doc3402

Just out of curiosity, have you ever asked the owner exactly what is meant by that sign?

Locally, all of our gun stores have a "No Loaded Firearms Beyond This Point" sign posted outside each entry door. When I asked about it every single store owner said that it was only enforced for the guns that people brought in that may be handled by the clerks. It did not apply to people carrying concealed weapons that intended to keep the weapon concealed. In fact, out local Gander Mountain is very specific that the empty weapon rule does not apply to concealed weapons carried by CCW holders. It says so at the bottom of the same sign.

Their logic, and I quite agree with it, is that some people are very careless when unloading guns, and they would prefer that it be done away from the store. They also request, and Florida law requires, that except for concealed weapons all guns brought into the store be securely encased. A gun rug, a plastic case, or a range bag are sufficient.

Anyway, ask your local dealer exactly what the sign's intent is. You may get a pleasant surprise.
I believe that our local Bass Pro and Cabelas require anyone who walks in to their stores to show clear for any guns they carry in. I am pretty sure that they have also have a sign stating that this requirement does not apply to lawfully carried concealed guns. Since Kansas requires a specific sign these stores can be considered to be "not posted". Considering the frequency of gun handling, much of it by people who are unfamiliar with the manual of arms for a specific gun, I believe that this is a reasonable control for the safety of others. Gun shows around here are posted and concealed carry is prohibited. When you consider the number of times you'll see someone sweeping everyone in the general vicinity, I believe that this is an absolute must.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:35 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by KansasCandR

I believe that our local Bass Pro and Cabelas require anyone who walks in to their stores to show clear for any guns they carry in. I am pretty sure that they have also have a sign stating that this requirement does not apply to lawfully carried concealed guns. Since Kansas requires a specific sign these stores can be considered to be "not posted". Considering the frequency of gun handling, much of it by people who are unfamiliar with the manual of arms for a specific gun, I believe that this is a reasonable control for the safety of others. Gun shows around here are posted and concealed carry is prohibited. When you consider the number of times you'll see someone sweeping everyone in the general vicinity, I believe that this is an absolute must.
I think the cabelas rule is for guns you are bringing in for trade
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