Attack Victim Had a Hand on His Gun, But He Didn't Shoot - Page 3
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rick1967 View Post
I would not shoot at someone that is running away. However, if he is still shooting when I draw, my gun would go bang.
Same here. If he had drawn and shot his attacker while being shot at then it would have been a good shoot. However, his attacker turning to run (1) and having a less-lethal weapon (2) changes the dynamic. Shooting a fleeing attacker is definitely on the Not Recommended list.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by AIKIJUTSU View Post
Once the perp kept firing, the guy should have drawn, ran up to the perp, and shot him point blank.
It's real easy to say that while you have time to think about the situation. All this happened very quickly. Anyone can fire a CO2 BB pistol very quickly. The attacker had shot him twice and was running away in less than a second. If the victim had shot in self defense, he would have shot his attacker in the back. The victim in this case was a much better man than I am. I can't say what I would have done. No one has ever attacked me with an air pistol. Most likely I would have been concerned with finding medical attention. The victims G/F was safe.

Shooting someone because they have injured you is not the right thing to do, even if it is legal. This is just my opinion, the only time one should use a firearm with a lethal load is when they are in fear of their life. He was not in fear of his life if the attacker was running away.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:05 AM   #23
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While this may seem open and shut to most of you, think of all the cases where cops have shot those brandishing a "toy" firearm that looks like the real thing just for pointing it at them. Had it been me, the man would be dead.

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Old 01-11-2013, 02:09 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by GeneralPatton
While this may seem open and shut to most of you, think of all the cases where cops have shot those brandishing a "toy" firearm that looks like the real thing just for pointing it at them. Had it been me, the man would be dead.
Only you don't have the legal counsel of a police union behind you for using lethal force to protect yourself from a less than lethal attack.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:02 PM   #25
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No I don't, but I have the benefit of multiple precedents from our legal system, and GA law is pretty clear with a "stand your ground" law when the appearance is your life is in jeopardy. Then there's always the argument that you that the perp was firing a suppressed weapon.

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Old 01-11-2013, 10:57 PM   #26
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Ok, here's one I'd like your thoughts on... I recently finished a 34 State Firearm concealed license course a week ago and one of the things mentioned that kinda stalled everyone in attendance out was the instructor said, in most cases where a firearm was used as a defense measure, it would ensure a civil suit being filed by the family of the perpetrator if they were killed. That one subject was talked about more than anything at this training.

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Old 01-12-2013, 07:10 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by TankTop View Post
When I was a teen me and some friends were robbed, one of my friends was shot in the incident. The entire thing lasted under 20 seconds and I don't know that I would have ever had an opportunity to draw. That one incident is one of my reasons for questioning if I should carry. I know that isn't the only type of incident, but once you are staring at a gun, going for your own may be a little late, my opinion, the guy who draws first wins... On the other hand, I was very calm and had my wits during and after which also makes me think I am a good candidate to carry. Point is is when SHTF it happens fast and none of us know how we will react until it is over and your standing there asking yourself if it really just happened...
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Sorry Tanktop but I disagree with you on a number of issues. Firstly, if you do decide to carry concealed you should develop the mental attitude that if you are confronted with such a situation your first option is to defend yourself. If not, why carry concealed?
Secondly, the guy who draws first doesn't always win. A guy who draws can be first at doing just that.....draw. Completing the task can have so many interruptions like malfunctions and the like that the person who is last on the draw might be the first on the squeeze.
Thirdly, carrying concealed is serious business. I have told my students that training takes over when you are in the SHTF moment.Training is important so get some personal defense classes and training in the use of firearms as a regular part of your routine.
You both have valid points, and with all due respect, I have to disagree on the draw v\s malfunction comparison. In both cases, the person who can remain calm during an attack such as this is usually the one who will land the first accurate hit. If you are fast and flustered, your accuracy suffers, and a malfunction will be harder to deal with. Training is what you will revert to in times of panic. The more you have, the greater your odds of survival. Good post PrinC. In a case such as the OP's link, being aware of his surroundings would have been of more use than the gun. TankTop. Not trying to downplay what happened to you and your friend, that was a pretty bad spot to be in. Take the offered advice and get some training. I sincearly hope you nacer have to go through that again. Same for the other members here, but if you get properly trained, you may be able to spot trouble before it spots you. If nothing else, you will be more prepared to handle it, and more likely to prevent a tragic outcome.

Edit: After re-reading your post PrinC, I have to appologize. Not arguing your point at all. What I posted was pretty much in line with what you said. Sorry.

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This encounter reeks of poor training. Racial comments from a man closing on you in a parking lot at 3 am?

Real gun, air gun, club, knife, or bare hand...simply presenting the victims weapon "without drawing" would most likely have sent this punk scurrying away.

I'm glad the victim had minor injuries and hope he gets some training after this.

Allowing an obvious aggressor to close that closely is simply not smart and adrenaline can cause some folks to freeze up. Training, training, and then a bit more training is advisable for all.

Tack
QFT.

If it had been me, One of us would probably be getting carried by 6. I was taught self defense and weapons handling by a retired Marine and a retired State Trroper. The best advice I ever got from that Trooper (my grandfather) was this.

"If deadly force is threatened, use deadly force on your attacker. Dead men can't testify. If you pull your gun, and he tries to run off, let him. Just make damn sure that you are the one who calls the police first."

Good training and situational awareness are your best defense. The attack in the OP might not have happened if the victim had been better trained and more aware of his surroundings.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by TankTop View Post
Only you don't have the legal counsel of a police union behind you for using lethal force to protect yourself from a less than lethal attack.
"Less than lethal attack"??
As soon as he fired the first shot, I would have drawn & fired!
I can't tell if he is using a less than lethal gun, the first shot may have been a weak round. I wouldn't have given him a chance to fire again.
In fact I'm not sure if he would have gotten the first shot off, if he is pursuing me calling me names & then points a gun at me!!
Sorry he would be down real fast.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:42 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MimberFan View Post
Ok, here's one I'd like your thoughts on... I recently finished a 34 State Firearm concealed license course a week ago and one of the things mentioned that kinda stalled everyone in attendance out was the instructor said, in most cases where a firearm was used as a defense measure, it would ensure a civil suit being filed by the family of the perpetrator if they were killed. That one subject was talked about more than anything at this training.
At least I would be alive to be sued!!
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #30
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"Less than lethal attack"??
As soon as he fired the first shot, I would have drawn & fired!
I can't tell if he is using a less than lethal gun, the first shot may have been a weak round. I wouldn't have given him a chance to fire again.
In fact I'm not sure if he would have gotten the first shot off, if he is pursuing me calling me names & then points a gun at me!!
Sorry he would be down real fast.
How would you have drawn your pistol and fired after the first shot? A CO2 BB pistol fires just as fast as a semiautomatic firearm. I have seen world champion defensive shooters in competition. None of them can can clear their cover vest before one can fire a second shot with a CO2 BB pistol. You can draw and fire 10x faster than a champion defensive shooter? The attacker ran away after the attack.

Many CO2 pistols look just like a real firearm. You can go to Walmart tomorrow and buy a CO2 BB pistol that looks and feels just like a semi auto pistol.

One last question do you draw your pistol every time someone calls you a name?
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