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murraywc 07-11-2010 03:51 AM

US service otg
 
3 Attachment(s)
My neighbor saw me coming in from shooting today and brought a gun over that his father had given him and wanted to see if I knew what it was. He was going to give it to his son.The pictures are not real clear I only had my phone with me at the time it is a 38 S&W double action revolver with the marking US service OTG S and had a trade mark on it. Does anyone know what this is or anything ab?out it

Jpyle 07-11-2010 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraywc (Post 313317)
My neighbor saw me coming in from shooting today and brought a gun over that his father had given him and wanted to see if I knew what it was. He was going to give it to his son.The pictures are not real clear I only had my phone with me at the time it is a 38 S&W double action revolver with the marking US service OTG S and had a trade mark on it. Does anyone know what this is or anything ab?out it

Look around for a model or serial number to help in dating. BTW, do not shoot it until it can be determined whether it is chambered for 38 S&W or 38 Special, they are not interchangeable. BTW, is it OTG or CTG?

c3shooter 07-11-2010 04:19 AM

Do not think you will find a model number- WAY too early for model numbers. First question- does it say 38 S&W, or 38 S&W SPECIAL ??? And I will bet you a beer it does not say OTG, but DOES say CTG- the abbreviation for cartridge. The US military ordered about 2000 Service Revolvers- about 1901. Early model of the Hand Ejector.

murraywc 07-11-2010 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 313330)
Do not think you will find a model number- WAY too early for model numbers. First question- does it say 38 S&W, or 38 S&W SPECIAL ??? And I will bet you a beer it does not say OTG, but DOES say CTG- the abbreviation for cartridge. The US military ordered about 2000 Service Revolvers- about 1901. Early model of the Hand Ejector.

I may be CTC it was a little hard to read and I think it was 38 s&w special I was hoping it would show up on the picture. Wasn't the 38 used for a while before the 1911 contract? I thought it might be but I couldn't find a model or serial.

Jpyle 07-11-2010 04:27 AM

I was leaning towards 190x Hand Ejector but it looked to be in too good of a condition for a 104 year old revolver. A truly great find for the OP's neighbor.

from another source...

Quote:

Your Grandfather's revolver is a Smith & Wesson .38 1905 Hand Ejector, 1st Change. It was more popularly known as the Military & Police model, or M&P. It was made on the K, not J frame.

The 1st change variant were made between 1906 and 1909, within a serial number range running from 73,251 to about 146,899. Standard barrel lengths were 4, 5, 6 and 6 1/2 inches. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate. The 6-shot cylinder was chambered in .38 Special, but could also shoot the standard .38 Long Colt cartridge used by the U.S. military services at that time. Without question, your Grandfather could have obtained the gun during the First World War period (1918).

1024xx is the correct serial number, which is duplicated on the bottom of the barrel (ignore the "B"), rear cylinder face, and inside one of the stocks. the number on the frame and yoke (271xx) are assembly numbers that are of no importance to us now.

When shooting it keep in mind that it is at least 100 years old, and avoid the use of Plus-P ammunition.

Value in it's present condition is probably around $175 to $200 at best.

canebrake 07-11-2010 04:42 AM

Hope this helps, better photos would help. If you nail down which one you have I can give you a guesstimate of it's value.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE FIRST MODEL (MODEL OF 1899)
- .38 S&W Special cal., early Army & Navy models were marked "S&W .38 MIL.", civilian guns and standard models are 2-line barrel marked ".38 S&W SPECIAL & U.S. SERVICE CTG'S" with the "Maltese Cross" emblem stamped both before and after the caliber, these models are also referred to as .38 Hand Ejectors, 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, or 6 1/2 in. barrel, blue or nickel finish, "S&W" monogram checkered hard rubber or checkered walnut grips with walnut grips exhibiting an impressed circle at top, left plain for civilian issue, marked with inspector's initials for military issue. 20,975 mfg. 1899-1902. Serial number range 1-20,975.
On these models, barrel markings are somewhat confusing, generally marked .38 S&W Spl. & U.S. Service cartridge, Military Issue is typically marked .38 Military. Fixed sights are referred to as Military & Police Models while target sights are referred to as .38 Hand Ejectors.

.38 Military & Police First Model U.S. Navy
- 1,000 revolvers in .38 S&W Spl. cal. with 6 in. barrel, blue, checkered walnut grips, delivered in 1900. Stamped on butt "U.S.N." with an anchor and inspector's initials. All in S&W serial range 5,001-6,000. U.S. Navy serial number range 1-1,000.

.38 Military & Police First Model U.S. Army
- 1,000 revolvers in .38 Military cal. with 6 in. barrel, blue, checkered walnut grips, inspector's initials "K.S.M." on right grip panel with "J.T.T.1901" on left grip panel. Stamped on butt "U.S. ARMY/MODEL 1899". S&W serial number range 13,001-14,000.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE SECOND MODEL (MODEL OF 1902)
- .38 S&W Special and .38 Military cal., civilian and standard models barrels have a 2-line marking ".38 S&W SPECIAL & U.S. SERVICE CTG'S" with the "Maltese Cross" emblem stamped both before and after the caliber, 6 shot, fluted cylinder, 4, 5, 6, and 6 1/2 in. barrels, blue or nickel, "S&W" monogram checkered hard rubber or checkered walnut grips. 12,827 mfg. 1902-03. Serial number range 20,976-33,803.

.38 Military & Police Second Model U.S. Navy
- 1,000 revolvers in .38 United States Service caliber with 6 in. barrel, delivered in 1902, "U.S.N." with "J.A.B.", anchor, and arrow through horizontal "S" and "No." (Naval Ser. No. designation) stamped on butt, ser. no. range is 1,001 - 2,000.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE SECOND MODEL - 1ST CHANGE
- .38 S&W Special cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, or 6 1/2 in. barrel, blue or nickel, "S&W" monogram checkered hard rubber or checkered walnut grips, rounded butt style. 28,645 mfg. 1903-05. Serial number range 33,804-62,449.

.38 Military & Police Second Model 1st Change Standard Round Butt
- hard rubber grips, round butt.

.38 Military & Police Second Model 1st Change Standard Square Butt
- checkered walnut grips or square butt to frame style. All will have serial numbers over the 58,000 range.
- .38 S&W Special cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, or 6 1/2 in. barrel, blue or nickel finish, "S&W" monogram checkered hard rubber (round butt) or checkered walnut (square butt) grips. 10,800 mfg. 1905-06. Serial number range 62,450-73,250.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE (MODEL OF 1905 - 1ST CHANGE)
- .38 S&W Special cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, 6, or 6 1/2 in. barrel, blue or nickel finish, grips same as above. 73,648 mfg. (including Model 1905 2nd change), exact quantity of both models has not been determined. The first change mfg. in 1906-08. Serial number range 73,251 - unknown.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE (MODEL OF 1905 - 2ND CHANGE)
- .38 S&W Special cal., cylinder barrel lengths, finishes and grip styles same as above. 73,648 (including Model 1905 1st change) mfg. Exact quantity unknown. The second change mfg. in 1908-09. Serial number range unknown-146,899.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE (MODEL OF 1905 - 3RD CHANGE)
- .38 S&W Special cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 4, 5, or 6 in. barrel, finishes and grip styles same as above. 94,803 mfg. 1909-15. Serial number range 146,900-241,703.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE (MODEL OF 1905 - 4TH CHANGE)
- .38 S&W Special cal., 6 shot fluted cylinder, 2, 4, 5, or 6 in. barrel, finishes and grip styles same as above. 458,296 mfg. 1915-42. Serial number range 241,704-approx. 1,000,000.

.38 MILITARY & POLICE (POSTWAR)
- .38 S&W Special cal., double action revolver built on the square butt K 5 screw frame. Mfg. circa 1946-1957

This model is a continuation of the previous model without the V serial prefix or the lanyard ring. A contemporary source indicates the S prefix postwar guns began as early as Dec. 27, 1944 at around s/n S769000. Others report Sept. 1945 beginning at S811120. It's reported that at S990184, Apr. 7, 1948, the new short throw hammer action was introduced, becoming the now familiar Model 10 in 1957. Many postwar frames will have the hole in the side of the frame for the access to the lanyard ring lock pin. Postwar production frames will also have the four address lines of "Made In U.S.A., Marcas Registradas, Smith & Wesson Springfield, Mass." on the right side. After the production of the second million M&P revolvers, the serial prefix was again changed to a C prefix on March 22, 1948 starting over at C-1, and was also numbered concurrently with the M&P Airweights and the M&P .22 or pre-Model 45. The C prefix continued until 1967 when a D serial prefix was introduced after C999999. Available in 2, 4, 5, or 6 in. round pinned barrel lengths with a 1/10 inch fixed round blade front sight and a square notch rear sight (later changed to 1/8 in.). Available in blue or nickel finish. The 6 shot fluted cylinder has a nominal length of 1.56 in.. Case colored .240 in. serrated trigger with finely checked hammer with .265 in. spur, checkered diamond walnut grips with S&W monograms, S&W trademark on the sideplate, barrel markings are "Smith & Wesson" on the left side and ".38 S&W Special CTG." on the right side. Smooth backstrap and forestrap. Serial numbers are found on the butt, cylinder face, barrel flat, yoke face (viewed thru a charge hole), the rear of the star extractor, and on the right grip panel. The round butt frame variation became available in late 1947. The 2 in. variation will have Smith & Wesson and the caliber marking on the left side of the barrel. Weight is 29.5 oz for a 4 in. version. Became the Model 10 in 1957.


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