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Old 06-07-2013, 02:25 AM   #21
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Cops can't hit in a shootout because they're training sucks.

Thugs kill in a shootout because they have no crappy training in they way of their intent to kill.

The simple fact is shooting a handgun is no more difficult than pointing your finger.

Self defense shooting takes place at such close ranges the things you learn about "site picture" etc. Are useless and in fact a handicap.

The original "glock" design had NO, repeat NO sites. Site we added because of marketing reasons.

Police generally miss they're shots because they are taught to Aim by looking at their front site, invariably they do it and either shoot high, or to the right.

At pistol ranges shooting human sized targets, aiming is not only not neccesary but is a hinderance.

If you don't believe me, just tae out a few siloette targets, take five steps away and draw and shoot them without aiming.

Please don't mistake what I'm saying with 'target' shooting or 'competitive' shooting.

This is for killing bad guys in self defense.

Incidently, this is not my 'theory' it has been taught to elite military units in the US since ww2. I learned it watching a black ad white .45 acp army training video. Its works.

Revolvers are easy and more reliable because they don't have safties to learn or forget about, and generally they don't need to be cocked first.

Again if you think I'm full of crap, break out the targets and try.
so is it your opinion that a person should just buy a pistol for CC and SD usage and never fire it for practice because all threats will be at 15 feet or less and there is no way they can miss at that range?

just buy a pistol and have no idea as to where it hits or what the felt recoil is like? hmmm....just buy the pistol and hope it works when you need it, because you never fired it and you don't know if it works?

and what you are posting might be of some merit for someone who has experiance with pistols. personally i can hit my target at five steps quite well, but i have been shooting pistols for well over 25 years now and have shot more than a few thousand rounds in them. but what about the new person to pistols or firearms in general? i'm sorry but your opinion isn't quite valid in that sense.

and FYI, in a stressful situation, do you think you would do much better if you were being shot at and had to return fire? can you tell me that your accuracy wouldn't be degraded somewhat?

and there is a huge difference between LEO's and BG's. the LEO wants to make it home safely, the BG is probably hopped up on drugs or just doesn't really have any care about human life in general, his included.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:30 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggerjob View Post
Cops can't hit in a shootout because they're training sucks.

Thugs kill in a shootout because they have no crappy training in they way of their intent to kill.

The simple fact is shooting a handgun is no more difficult than pointing your finger.

Self defense shooting takes place at such close ranges the things you learn about "site picture" etc. Are useless and in fact a handicap.

The original "glock" design had NO, repeat NO sites. Site we added because of marketing reasons.

Police generally miss they're shots because they are taught to Aim by looking at their front site, invariably they do it and either shoot high, or to the right.

At pistol ranges shooting human sized targets, aiming is not only not neccesary but is a hinderance.

If you don't believe me, just tae out a few siloette targets, take five steps away and draw and shoot them without aiming.

Please don't mistake what I'm saying with 'target' shooting or 'competitive' shooting.

This is for killing bad guys in self defense.

Incidently, this is not my 'theory' it has been taught to elite military units in the US since ww2. I learned it watching a black ad white .45 acp army training video. Its works.

Revolvers are easy and more reliable because they don't have safties to learn or forget about, and generally they don't need to be cocked first.

Again if you think I'm full of crap, break out the targets and try.
Point shooting is indeed effective at short range if you have practiced it.

I would offer a thought that thugs may have some measure if success due to the volume if criminal shootings vs the number of police shootings, along with the fact that action is generally faster and more precise than reaction.

In teaching new shooters I have found most will get better hits with a single action or striker fired auto, than a double action first shot from a revolver. Reacting to an attack may not offer an opportunity to cock a hammer and get a single action shot off. Snub nosed revolvers seem even harder for new shooters to master.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:31 AM   #23
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My wife with a minute or two of a safty lecture and the bsics of operating my .44, unloaded in the center of a target at 5 yards without aiming, and with no instrction on site picture.

It ain't that tough, drug addled street thugs do it everyday.

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Old 06-07-2013, 02:38 AM   #24
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
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well i'm done with this thread. apparently he's a better shooter and instructor than i am. can't teach people who already know it all.

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Old 06-07-2013, 02:40 AM   #25
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Its the stress in the situation that makes "aiming" imposible, this is why cops shoot 'high', they are generaly trained to 'aim'

Thuggs have zero training they just point and pull.


Like I said my wife isnt as proficient as a Delta Force operator, but then again she is never going to run down the fusalalge of a 747 tossing flassbangs with one hand on double popping jihadis with a colt .45 in the other.

Delta Force teachs "instinctive" shootng BTW.

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Old 06-07-2013, 02:47 AM   #26
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Axxe,

Rex Applegate, look him up, if you are teaching people "self defense" shooting you owe it to them to teach what has been proven to work.

Paladin Press sells the old ww2 army training video. In the video, the guys with less than 30 minutes training are scoring hits on siloetts 50 yards away, while walking and NOT aiming, its total kick ass.


Again, it ain't olympic target shooting. Its about killing a ****er who is intent on slabbing you out.

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Old 06-07-2013, 02:53 AM   #27
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So in theory a 44 mag is to powerful for close range, a HP round would likely go through someone before mushrooming out and doing the lethal damage that the round is intended to do!! Apposed to a 357 HP round with less power but big enough to spread its wings and do intended damage!! Plus the point you made! Whatever is behind the 44M shot will likely get hit!! Is this the bases that 357m is actual more practical for HD than 44m??
I keep the .44Mag for defense against bears. NOTE : As a DEFENSE against

bears, NOT to HUNT them.

As to your query about .357 VS .44 Mag, I don't shoot .357, so I couldn't say.

Personally, I prefer to go with the .45 for SD, and the slower, larger slug

will generally spend most of it's terminal energy in the initial target.


Do we have to keep pinging on Triggerjob? Can't we all just get along?

I will submit that, as a compromise, awareness levels are going to also

assist you in either living on, or pushing up daisies.

Because if you are simply reacting to a violent action, percentages

already have you buried...
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #28
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well i'm done with this thread. apparently he's a better shooter and instructor than i am. can't teach people who already know it all.
Yeah- some things just can't be fixed
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:15 PM   #29
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I see many of my original comments were deleted, not by me BTW. At least I sourced my comments.

If you guys want to continue to put out bad information go ahead.

But SAS, Massad, Delta and HRT agree with me. In close combat point shooting works, is easier to learn, and faster to master.

It relies on gross motor skills not fine motor skills, which is why you stubborn ole coots out to check out my sources, cuase teaching people target shooting skills for self defense is BAD, cuase it doesn't work well in situ

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Old 06-07-2013, 02:54 PM   #30
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We were playing with this .44 Memorial Day weekend at "da farm". It's my cousins btw.
Thinks it's a Bulldog of some sort/ double action only/five shot. It was quite tame to shoot from what expected.
Actually my other cuz had a five shot .375 that kicked more.

kinda comfy to hold may I add~ tips me hat

2013-05-27_18-44-07_366.jpg  
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