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Old 04-12-2011, 07:51 PM   #31
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Heh, I was gonna post that too.

But again, notice the #8 shot penetrating to a max depth of about 5". A 300lb guy has at least 6" of flesh in front of his heart, and far more if the shot is oblique in any way. Hell, I weigh about 145lbs and, turned sideways, have that 6" between that and my heart. Sure, my arm would be jacked up and likely lose most of its function, but if I've still got a handgun in the other arm, there is no physical reason I couldn't continue the fight.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:23 PM   #32
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Heh, I was gonna post that too.

But again, notice the #8 shot penetrating to a max depth of about 5". A 300lb guy has at least 6" of flesh in front of his heart, and far more if the shot is oblique in any way. Hell, I weigh about 145lbs and, turned sideways, have that 6" between that and my heart. Sure, my arm would be jacked up and likely lose most of its function, but if I've still got a handgun in the other arm, there is no physical reason I couldn't continue the fight.
How big and thick is that 300lb fella's head and neck? Or yours, for that matter?

I give up. I can't compete with "book educated, paper target" shooters.

1). F@ck the FBI and their statistics! Thier testing is for center mass preferred trajectory penetration shooting.

2). Ever see anyone shot in the head, neck, spine, groin, or knees, no matter what damn direction you are shooting from, and what ever caliber used? Ever hear of double and triple tap shooting? One shot one kill is for high velocity rifles, head and heart shots.

3). And the most important point of all....until someone has actually shot a human being, been there, felt and tasted the adrenalin, increased heart rate and blood, seen the aftermath, you will come to understand that all them preferred ballistic statistics, speculations and testing results are bullsh!t and moot!

I'm done! I apologize for my behavior, and I respectfully agree to god damn disagree...heh!
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:58 PM   #33
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How big and thick is that 300lb fella's head and neck? Or yours, for that matter?

I give up. I can't compete with "book educated, paper target" shooters.

1). F@ck the FBI and their statistics! Thier testing is for center mass preferred trajectory penetration shooting.

2). Ever see anyone shot in the head, neck, spine, groin, or knees, no matter what damn direction you are shooting from, and what ever caliber used? Ever hear of double and triple tap shooting? One shot one kill is for high velocity rifles, head and heart shots.

3). And the most important point of all....until someone has actually shot a human being, been there, felt and tasted the adrenalin, increased heart rate and blood, seen the aftermath, you will come to understand that all them preferred ballistic statistics, speculations and testing results are bullsh!t and moot!

I'm done! I apologize for my behavior, and I respectfully agree to god damn disagree...heh!

You know what annoys me about this site. It's so darn difficult to figure where people stand.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by IGETEVEN View Post
How big and thick is that 300lb fella's head and neck? Or yours, for that matter?

I give up. I can't compete with "book educated, paper target" shooters.

1). F@ck the FBI and their statistics! Thier testing is for center mass preferred trajectory penetration shooting.

2). Ever see anyone shot in the head, neck, spine, groin, or knees, no matter what damn direction you are shooting from, and what ever caliber used? Ever hear of double and triple tap shooting? One shot one kill is for high velocity rifles, head and heart shots.

3). And the most important point of all....until someone has actually shot a human being, been there, felt and tasted the adrenalin, increased heart rate and blood, seen the aftermath, you will come to understand that all them preferred ballistic statistics, speculations and testing results are bullsh!t and moot!

I'm done! I apologize for my behavior, and I respectfully agree to god damn disagree...heh!
Now I know how you really feel about me. Where is the smiley with a tear?
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:48 PM   #35
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I personally think it is a poor choice for SD. I won't argue that it would most likely blind you but that's not certain.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one.
Agreed!

I'll tell you. . . Being in the trades since high school and being a fearless young daredevil, I've experienced an array of injuries. Everything from 3rd degree burns, countless broken bones, 90% laceration of primary index, blown out knees, nails through my foot and hand. . . (different occasions) and the list goes on. I can tell you that even through the adrenaline (and sometimes booze) your body will tell you when to stop the fight and go into flight mode.

You do not have to fatally wound an attacker for them to stop the attack. This I know.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:26 AM   #36
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Jesus, IGETEVEN! No need to get your panties in a wad.

All of what I said was in direct response to erroneous statements of yours:

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A Human being's physical tissue structure is delicate and vital organs are located just under the skin.
I pointed out several cases in which vital organs are not "just under the skin." I even pointed out that up to half or more of all bullets which ultimately hit the vitals either pass through limps OR passed through the torso at an angle other than directly from the front or back, to get there.

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The physical and emotional trauma and resulting damage produced by fast moving velocity projectiles, is not the same as god damn ballistics gel!!!
A dedicated search would find thousands of accounts of people failing to stop after being shot varying numbers of times, despite what it feels like.

But,
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How big and thick is that 300lb fella's head and neck? Or yours, for that matter?

2). Ever see anyone shot in the head, neck, spine, groin, or knees, no matter what damn direction you are shooting from, and what ever caliber used?
Nobody once said anything about head shots (or anything else but torso shots). I am a good shot, but I don't train to aim for the head, and neither to 98% of shooters out there. If you can make headshots with robotic precision, that's great.

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Originally Posted by IGETEVEN View Post
1). F@ck the FBI and their statistics! Thier testing is for center mass preferred trajectory penetration shooting.
Classy. BTW, what is "preferred trajectory penetration shooting?" Nothing is "preferred" about having to shoot at a sideways target through his arm. see the image I posted.

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3). And the most important point of all....until someone has actually shot a human being, been there, felt and tasted the adrenalin, increased heart rate and blood, seen the aftermath, you will come to understand that all them preferred ballistic statistics, speculations and testing results are bullsh!t and moot!
I have no idea what having shot someone has anything to do with being correct or incorrect on any of the valid points I've made, or the fallacious generations you've made.





But, ignorance is bliss and people will believe whatever the hell they want to believe, regardless of how many contradicting facts are pissing in their faces.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:33 AM   #37
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You do not have to fatally wound an attacker for them to stop the attack. This I know.
You don't always have to, but tell that to officer Keith Borders who had to shoot his attacker 9 times with a .45acp, over the course of several minutes. The one that finally stopped the fight was the shot through the eye, despite having already hit him 6 times in the torso and twice in the same ankle.

Tell that to the two police officers who died in the Miami shootout while waiting four minutes for the assailant to finally bleed out, despite having a bullet sitting an inch away from his heart.

Like I said, there are a million stories out there about people failing to stop when getting shot. I am really not sure why anyone who has spent any time researching --or living-- defensive weapons use would believe that the guaranteed reaction to being shot is to fall down and go to sleep like some cheap Hollywood action flick.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:54 AM   #38
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You don't always have to, but tell that to officer Keith Borders who had to shoot his attacker 9 times with a .45acp, over the course of several minutes. The one that finally stopped the fight was the shot through the eye, despite having already hit him 6 times in the torso and twice in the same ankle.

Tell that to the two police officers who died in the Miami shootout while waiting four minutes for the assailant to finally bleed out, despite having a bullet sitting an inch away from his heart.
+1 to this! You don't always have to but unless you are a flawless marksman aiming to wound is asking for a very bad ending.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:10 AM   #39
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Like I said, there are a million stories out there about people failing to stop when getting shot. I am really not sure why anyone who has spent any time researching --or living-- defensive weapons use would believe that the guaranteed reaction to being shot is to fall down and go to sleep like some cheap Hollywood action flick.
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I have no idea what having shot someone has anything to do with being correct or incorrect on any of the valid points I've made, or the fallacious generations you've made.
Let's just say, there are those that have...and those that have not. You sir, are very much in the latter.

You just continue to spend your time researching, reading, and spouting them facts, figures and statistics, and shooting them paper targets...lucky for you, they don't shoot back.

Maybe someday, you will get the unlucky, or lucky chance, depends on how you look at it, to find out just what the hell I am talking about. Until then, you can just keep believing them "set in stone" ballistics bullsh!t you keep slinging.
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Last edited by IGETEVEN; 04-13-2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Grammer and clarity
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:11 AM   #40
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Jesus, IGETEVEN! No need to get your panties in a wad.

All of what I said was in direct response to erroneous statements of yours:


I pointed out several cases in which vital organs are not "just under the skin." I even pointed out that up to half or more of all bullets which ultimately hit the vitals either pass through limps OR passed through the torso at an angle other than directly from the front or back, to get there.


A dedicated search would find thousands of accounts of people failing to stop after being shot varying numbers of times, despite what it feels like.

But,

Nobody once said anything about head shots (or anything else but torso shots). I am a good shot, but I don't train to aim for the head, and neither to 98% of shooters out there. If you can make headshots with robotic precision, that's great.


Classy. BTW, what is "preferred trajectory penetration shooting?" Nothing is "preferred" about having to shoot at a sideways target through his arm. see the image I posted.


I have no idea what having shot someone has anything to do with being correct or incorrect on any of the valid points I've made, or the fallacious generations you've made.





But, ignorance is bliss and people will believe whatever the hell they want to believe, regardless of how many contradicting facts are pissing in their faces.
You can pretty much count on the fact that IGETEVEN is not giving erroneous info. Unlike most of us he has been through and done things we will never do. The FBI have nothing on guys like him. And for the record I aint kissing his ass.
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