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-   -   Iver Johnson "bolt" (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f16/iver-johnson-bolt-82049/)

huntmaster 01-21-2013 05:56 PM

Iver Johnson "bolt"
 
I've got an old Iver Johnson Cattleman here. It looks, by the parts pic very similar to the Colt army revolver.

Short story, I've just started doing some light gunsmithing. Someone I know has the revolver above, and when purchased the trigger was WAY too light.......I'm talking beyond hair trigger. Years later, the gun finally has problems. It was like the hammer would stick down. Once freed, everything seemed to work fine, but it happened every shot. Friend took to a gunsmith who replaced at least the hammer, and maybe the trigger with parts from a Uberty. Gun doesn't work right.

Next gunsmith says "no, wrong parts" and replaces at least the trigger.

Here's where I get it. Half way back on the trigger, it hangs. The bolt isn't dropping out fast enough. At safety cock, the cylinder won't turn to load. The cyl has ever so little play at full cock, and at lockup it's solid, so the had timing is correct, but the bolt doesn't clear the cylinder locks before the hand starts to rotate the cyl, which causes the hang.

I can't get a new bolt, but I can get a new trigger and hammer. I just don't know if the bolt was replaced in one of those fix attempts, or modified along the way.

So, can the bolt be sped up? I don't have a really good drawing of the engagement, so I'm not sure how it's moved to be honest. All I know is that the gunsmiths arround here apparently aren't as detailed as I seem to be, so i trust myself on a first look more than I do them.

Bob Wright 01-22-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntmaster (Post 1103894)
I've got an old Iver Johnson Cattleman here. It looks, by the parts pic very similar to the Colt army revolver.

Short story, I've just started doing some light gunsmithing. Someone I know has the revolver above, and when purchased the trigger was WAY too light.......I'm talking beyond hair trigger. Years later, the gun finally has problems. It was like the hammer would stick down. Once freed, everything seemed to work fine, but it happened every shot. Friend took to a gunsmith who replaced at least the hammer, and maybe the trigger with parts from a Uberty. Gun doesn't work right.

Next gunsmith says "no, wrong parts" and replaces at least the trigger.

Here's where I get it. Half way back on the trigger, it hangs. The bolt isn't dropping out fast enough. At safety cock, the cylinder won't turn to load. The cyl has ever so little play at full cock, and at lockup it's solid, so the had timing is correct, but the bolt doesn't clear the cylinder locks before the hand starts to rotate the cyl, which causes the hang.

I can't get a new bolt, but I can get a new trigger and hammer. I just don't know if the bolt was replaced in one of those fix attempts, or modified along the way.

So, can the bolt be sped up? I don't have a really good drawing of the engagement, so I'm not sure how it's moved to be honest. All I know is that the gunsmiths arround here apparently aren't as detailed as I seem to be, so i trust myself on a first look more than I do them.

There is a projection on the side of the hammer that lifts the "hooked leg" of the cylinder bolt. As the hammer is drawn back, it lifts this end of the bolt, which withdraws it from engaging the cylinder notch. (Doesn't this sound heady?) If that stud on the hammer is worn or altered, or it the leg is bent, it won't engage properly. Either a new hammer, or bolt is required.

The Iver Johnson Cattleman is made by Uberti, modern Cattleman parts, from Numrich or Brownell's, wolud be correct replacemnets. If, as you say, the gun is "beyond hair trigger", I'd suspect the hammer to be the culprit.



Bob Wright

P.S. I'm no gunsmith, but I have worked on my single actions.

And, P.P.S. Why can't you get a new bolt?

huntmaster 01-22-2013 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Wright (Post 1105173)
There is a projection on the side of the hammer that lifts the "hooked leg" of the cylinder bolt. As the hammer is drawn back, it lifts this end of the bolt, which withdraws it from engaging the cylinder notch. (Doesn't this sound heady?) If that stud on the hammer is worn or altered, or it the leg is bent, it won't engage properly. Either a new hammer, or bolt is required.

The Iver Johnson Cattleman is made by Uberti, modern Cattleman parts, from Numrich or Brownell's, wolud be correct replacemnets. If, as you say, the gun is "beyond hair trigger", I'd suspect the hammer to be the culprit.



Bob Wright

P.S. I'm no gunsmith, but I have worked on my single actions.

And, P.P.S. Why can't you get a new bolt?

Do you have a link to the Uberti making the Iver? Numrich has the hammer and trigger, but no bolts for the Iver Johnson. I can probably get the Uberti stuff, but I don't believe them to be the same gun.

Can the leg on the bolt be tweaked on these?

hiwall 01-22-2013 03:38 PM

That leg is spring steel. Try to tweak it.

Bob Wright 01-22-2013 08:42 PM

I'd suggest you triy this source:

http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopcontent.asp?type=home

Scroll down to the 1873 Buckhorn .44 Magnum. This bolt will probably be what you're lookin' for.

Remember, the Iver Johnson is a Uberti.



Bob Wright

huntmaster 01-22-2013 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Wright (Post 1105591)
Remember, the Iver Johnson is a Uberti.

Bob Wright

Well, the pic of the hammer sure doesn't line up. This is and always was a blade firing pin, not the nipple style.

Bob Wright 01-22-2013 11:13 PM

Whoa! You're talking blackpowder?

The Iver Johnson Cattleman I had was a .44 Magnum Cartridge revolver.

Even so, the bolt should be the same.

The brochure I have is dated June 1975, and the Cattleman was available in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt, and came as the Cattleman (fixed sights) and Buckhorn with target sights. The frame was case hardened, with brass trigger guard and backstrap. The gun had the Uberti hammer block safety.

If you've got a blade type firing pin, either its a rimfore or cap-and-ball, though I'm not familiar with a blackpowder Iver Johnson. Maybe if you showed a photo?

The hammer on my Iver Johnson looked something like this:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...l/100_9984.jpg

The wedge below the firing pin is the hammer block safety. It is engaged when the hammer is placed at the safety notch.

Bob Wright


Nipple type?


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