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-   -   caliber comparisons (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f16/caliber-comparisons-47503/)

circa81 08-29-2011 07:39 PM

caliber comparisons
 
In loads just for plinking with a medium to full size revolver, how does the recoil of the .45 long colt compare to the .357 magnum, .45 acp, and the .327 federal magnum? Same question for full on defensive loads as well. Thanks.

JonM 08-29-2011 10:00 PM

depends on how its loaded. my old ruger 45lc blackhawk i could load up super hot and it was brute to shoot more powerful than a 44mag. or i could load it down to 45acp levels making it a pleasure to shoot.

357 magnum can be loaded down to light 38 spl loadings.


45acp is the equivelent of the 45lc. the 45acp was designed to duplicate the military loading of the 45lc

the most versatile of the rounds you list is the 45lc. especially if you get a real strong actioned revolver. shooting blackpowder loads out of a 45lc revolver is a hoot

cant comment on the 327 never fired one or even seen one

SgtSam 08-30-2011 01:35 AM

JonM: Not to be picky, but the .45ACP was never designed to duplicate the standard loading of the .45Colt. It can't be no matter what kind of powder you put in it. .45ACP doesn't handle 255 grain bullets very well. And to load the .45ACP up to get in the neighborhood of 970fps, with the requisite 255gr bullet, would be disastrous.

The .45Colt's requirement by the Army at the time of its inception was that the new round must be able to penetrate a horse and still have enough power left to kill a man behind the horse. We're talking Indians hanging off of the off side of their horses while riding in raids or battle, for one scenario. There are others.

As good as the .45ACP is, it is not in the same league with the .45Colt when that round is loaded to its normal, or higher loadings. The .45Colt is actually a far more versatile round than the .45ACP, IF, and only if, you are a handloader.

As you can most likely tell, I'm a big fan of the .45Colt (Long Colt is not the correct term for the cartridge).

JonM 08-30-2011 02:10 AM

and yes the 45colt (wont call it lc anymore :) ) is a more versatile round.

for some reason the army dropped the 45colt went to a 38 discovered it didnt work well and decided to replace it with an auto pistol. the design parameters was to get close as reasonable to the old 45 colt as a goal.

they got almost close with the 45acp which was good enough.

older bp loadings were around 1000fps. modern factory 45 colt is around 860fps from what i understand

my old blackhawk could push a 255 to nearly 1400fps. but it was brutal to shoot.

if i could pick a perfect revolver today it would be a colt python chamber in 45colt. one of the new production colt saa in 45c is on my short list

303tom 09-02-2011 11:36 PM

The .327 offers more 'real-world' energy than the .357 Mag., (at least in my test), better penetration and one more shot per gun load. It does all this with substantially less recoil and noticeably less muzzle blast than the .357 Mag.

CubDriver_451 09-03-2011 12:27 AM

303Tom,

Curious about what you mean by "real world" energy?

Not trying to start a caliber debate or any other argument, just not understanding what you are say.

Thanks,

JW

303tom 09-03-2011 04:11 AM

.357 Mag. 1600 fps , 800 ft. lbs. energy. .327 Fed. Mag. 1900 fps , 800 ft. lbs. energy with less recoil.

Mark F 09-03-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtSam (Post 571793)
JonM: Not to be picky, but the .45ACP was never designed to duplicate the standard loading of the .45Colt. It can't be no matter what kind of powder you put in it. .45ACP doesn't handle 255 grain bullets very well. And to load the .45ACP up to get in the neighborhood of 970fps, with the requisite 255gr bullet, would be disastrous.

The .45Colt's requirement by the Army at the time of its inception was that the new round must be able to penetrate a horse and still have enough power left to kill a man behind the horse. We're talking Indians hanging off of the off side of their horses while riding in raids or battle, for one scenario. There are others.

As good as the .45ACP is, it is not in the same league with the .45Colt when that round is loaded to its normal, or higher loadings. The .45Colt is actually a far more versatile round than the .45ACP, IF, and only if, you are a handloader.

As you can most likely tell, I'm a big fan of the .45Colt (Long Colt is not the correct term for the cartridge).

Thanks SgtSAM, a correction was needed.

Long live 45 COLT.

mes227 09-04-2011 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtSam (Post 571793)
As good as the .45ACP is, it is not in the same league with the .45Colt when that round is loaded to its normal, or higher loadings. The .45Colt is actually a far more versatile round than the .45ACP, IF, and only if, you are a handloader.

The .45 Colt is a very versatile load even with factory ammo, considering the range of options from light Cowboy loads to the very heavy Buffalo Bore loads that exceed the ballistics of their own .44 Map +P.

mes227 09-04-2011 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 303tom (Post 573847)
.357 Mag. 1600 fps , 800 ft. lbs. energy. .327 Fed. Mag. 1900 fps , 800 ft. lbs. energy with less recoil.

In your example the .327 delivers the same energy, but substantially less stopping power. Energy is a function of bullet weight times velocity square and has little relation to stopping power (e.g., the .22 Mag delivers substantially more energy than a .380 auto - a whopping 320 ft-lbs vs. a meager 190 - but you don't see many LE using .22 Mags as back-ups). Of the various standard ballistic measurements, energy is perhaps the least important.

Further, considering standard factory loads, the .327 does not deliver the same energy as the .357. Most of the premium .357s listed on ballistics101.com (as an example) deliver between 460 and 750 ft-lbs, while the list of premium .327s deliver 370 to 500 ft-lbs.

Many consider the terminal knock-out or TKO a much better indicator of stopping power. TKO uses bullet weight, terminal velocity (not squared) and expanded bullet diameter (TKO = weight x velocity x diameter / 7,000).

Here's a comparison of Federal Hydra-Shok rounds in both calibers:

.327 Mag
85 gr, muzzle velocity=1,400 fps, muzzle energy=370 ft-lbs. Assuming 50% expansion, TKO = 8.3, about half way between a .380 auto and a .38 Special.

.357 Mag
158 gr, MV=1,240 fps, ME=539. Again assuming 50% expansion, TKO = 15.1. Nearly double that of the .327 Mag, the same as a 10mm Glaser or a .44 Special JHP, and only a bit less than the legendary .45 acp JHP.

Thus, while the .327 Mag is a fine caliber, it cannot reasonably be compared to a .357 Mag. The advantage of an extra 10% diameter and almost 50% extra weight cannot be overstated.


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