.357 vs .44 - Page 7
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.357 vs .44


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Old 05-08-2013, 02:05 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post

rated ahead of which? the 44 Mag. or the 44 Spl.? please provide some sources that validate that statement.

these figures were pulled from Honady's website on their ammo ballistics.

367 Magnum.
125 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1500/624
140 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1350/566
158 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1250/548

44 Spl.
180 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1000/400
165 gr. FTX bullets MV/ME 900/297

44 Magnum
180 gr. FTX bullets MV/ME 1235/610
180 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1550/960
200 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1500/999

i'm sorry, unless you are comparing the 357 Mag to the 44 Spl. your argument doesn't hold water. compared to the 44 Magnum, it's pushing almost twice the energy than the 357 Magnum.
Too much energy, 44 mag punches straight through, its only good for hunting/bears, 357 mag 158 gr has the possibility of over penetration as well, 125gr is better. 44 special is a good choice for sd, pretty close to 357 125gr.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:42 AM   #62
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Too much energy, 44 mag punches straight through, its only good for hunting/bears, 357 mag 158 gr has the possibility of over penetration as well, 125gr is better. 44 special is a good choice for sd, pretty close to 357 125gr.
I don't think he was looking at it from a defense standing but more as a ballistic figure.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:12 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by phildenton View Post
Too much energy, 44 mag punches straight through, its only good for hunting/bears, 357 mag 158 gr has the possibility of over penetration as well, 125gr is better. 44 special is a good choice for sd, pretty close to 357 125gr.
The .44 mag is one of those rounds that can be a good SD round under the right circumstances, any bullet with too much mass like a 240gr+ at moderate velocities could punch through a human before the energy flattens the bullet to slow it down, but if you lighten the bullet, have it be a hollowpoint and even increase it's velocity you will not have pass through.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
rated ahead of which? the 44 Mag. or the 44 Spl.? please provide some sources that validate that statement.

these figures were pulled from Honady's website on their ammo ballistics.

367 Magnum.
125 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1500/624
140 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1350/566
158 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1250/548

44 Spl.
180 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1000/400
165 gr. FTX bullets MV/ME 900/297

44 Magnum
180 gr. FTX bullets MV/ME 1235/610
180 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1550/960
200 gr. XTP bullets MV/ME 1500/999

i'm sorry, unless you are comparing the 357 Mag to the 44 Spl. your argument doesn't hold water. compared to the 44 Magnum, it's pushing almost twice the energy than the 357 Magnum.
I like the comparison between the 125 gr xtp .357 and the 180gr ftx .44 mag.The .44 mag might be heavier, but I believe that energy is what really provides penetration more than bullet weight itself(as long as it's not so much energy the bullet is destroyed or flattened beyond recognition, which 600 fpe is not enough to do that).It really shows here that the .44 mag ftx might even have less penetration than that .357 xtp because both have almost identical energy, yet a fully expanded 180gr .44 mag is way larger than a fully expanded 125gr .357 causing more drag, and probably less penetration than that .357.It seems to me that handgun loads can really be relative to what you make it rather than a generalized opinion by comparing a standard loading of each round.In a nutshell the .44 mag can do the same as a .357 and way more too if you want it to...
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:33 PM   #65
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A .357 is usually rated ahead of a .44 for stopping power. It has that magical combination of velocity and bullet weight that just makes it more devastating then other calibers. Why trade a proven top notch man stopper for something with more recoil that will slow down your follow up shots. I owned a few .44's and they were strictly range fun guns. I carry a .357 and have for over 40 years. Will stop anything that walks in my State so no need to carry anything else.
The problem with some of the figures on stopping power, such as from the one shot stop FBI figures, is that alot of these numbers are way out dated.At the time this data was collected, there were thousands of recorded actual shootings with the .357 magnum because it was a common caliber, and had already been upgraded to 125 gr hollowpoints and that ammo was readily available to the general public, as where the .44 mag wasn't typically used for defense because people thought of it as too much gun and basically only 240 gr softpoints were available for it, so because of those reasons you had only 60 actual shootings recorded on the one shot stop data, vs thousands from the .357.And of course you will get a lower OSS % because that .44 mag ammo is not a good defense ammo, and the low numbers of data recorded on the .44 mag was not reliable.You compare a light .357 mag HP to a modern light .44 mag and I will guarantee that the .44 mag will blow .357 out of the water in it's stopping power.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:07 PM   #66
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I like the comparison between the 125 gr xtp .357 and the 180gr ftx .44 mag.The .44 mag might be heavier, but I believe that energy is what really provides penetration more than bullet weight itself(as long as it's not so much energy the bullet is destroyed or flattened beyond recognition, which 600 fpe is not enough to do that).It really shows here that the .44 mag ftx might even have less penetration than that .357 xtp because both have almost identical energy, yet a fully expanded 180gr .44 mag is way larger than a fully expanded 125gr .357 causing more drag, and probably less penetration than that .357.It seems to me that handgun loads can really be relative to what you make it rather than a generalized opinion by comparing a standard loading of each round.In a nutshell the .44 mag can do the same as a .357 and way more too if you want it to...
Sectional density has a lot to do with penetretion, with the right velocity, diameter, mass combination the 44 mag will perform exceptionally for sd.

Out of curiosity, what are the specs for the two compared loadings, including sectional density?

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Old 05-08-2013, 10:48 PM   #67
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Sectional density has a lot to do with penetretion, with the right velocity, diameter, mass combination the 44 mag will perform exceptionally for sd.

Out of curiosity, what are the specs for the two compared loadings, including sectional density?
I looked up some specs on the 125 gr critical defense 357 mag and here they are..1,500fps/624fpe in an 8" barrel and 1,200fps/400fpe in a 2" barrel, ballistic coefficient of .150 and sectional density of .140.Now here's the .44 mag critical defense 180 gr...1,235fps/610fpe from a 2 and 5/8" barrel(no other test barrel provided) ballistic coefficient of .180 and sectional density of .139.To be honest I am not as familiar with sectional density as I would like to be.What do these numbers really mean?
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:53 AM   #68
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very interesting, i like chuck hawkes explanation best: http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

basically the penetrating potential is obtained by considering the weight and diameter of a bullet, and then the speed.

edit: addendum: http://shakeypete.blogspot.com/2008/12/sectional-density-and-bullet.html
really good info of the math, including equations, and explanations

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:53 PM   #69
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I like your style, That was John Wesley Hardins preferred caliber , The deadliest gunslinger in all of the wild west.... Dont ask, for some reason im way more interested in the old west/1860s, than a person should be...
Yep, his .41 long Colt Dbl action. "Thunderer"...

I understand your passion for Old West History, I have it also Living here in SE AZ I'm in the middle of some great history, Ranchers, Lawmen, Outlaws, Indians, Calvary, Spanish Explorers.

We'll have to trade stories sometime.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #70
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Have you looked at this? www.Brass Fetcher.com They tested 357 and 44m and one example(speer gold dot357 125=1432fps 16.8 pen.0.333 exp. 44m gold dot 240 gr.1354 fps 18.2 pen. 0.419 expan. Alli can say is hope your neighbors are not home for the 18.2 44m penetration. Also a article from amer rifleman 8/29/12 called Handgun stopping power by richard mann is good but excludes 44m
44sw_629side2.jpg   357tauras2inchside1.jpg   44redhawkside1.jpg   357taurus4inchside1.jpg  
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