.357 vs .44 - Page 3
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:18 PM   #21
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If you are going to post as an expert on revolvers at least get your Mdls. of S&W correct. Anyone who has ever owned a cap pistol knows the Mdl.19 was a medium "K" frame revolver.
The light weight Mdl. 19 was cahmbered in .357 Magnum only. The early S&W .44 Magnums were built on the S&W large frame of the day. The Mdl. 29 "N" frame.
This is a first year production Pre-29 5 screw manufactured the 2nd Qtr. of 1956.

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:36 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
If you are going to post as an expert on revolvers at least get your Mdls. of S&W correct. Anyone who has ever owned a cap pistol knows the Mdl.19 was a medium "K" frame revolver.
The light weight Mdl. 19 was cahmbered in .357 Magnum only. The early S&W .44 Magnums were built on the S&W large frame of the day. The Mdl. 29 "N" frame.
This is a first year production Pre-29 5 screw manufactured the 2nd Qtr. of 1956.
Thinking it was a typo--But a couple other remarks make me wonder---
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:36 PM   #23
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Yes it was a typo, Yes I'm sure about that. Except the NO recoil .45 that was a mild exageration, they can be modified to significantly reduce recoil though which is the point.

At the time of ignition. Bullit wieght vrs gun wieght is what causes recoil. The heavier the gun is in relation to the bullit the less recoil their will be. After the bullit leaves the barrel, exhuast blast adds to the perception of recoil. The higher the barrel is from th pivot point which in most cases is your hand or wrist the more 'leverage' the recoil can exert. So generally revolvers have more 'felt' recoil than automatics because the barrels are mounted higher. To eliminate that muzzle flip you port the barrel, this pushs the barrel down to counter the upward movd cause by exhuast gases pushing the gun back against its pivot point.

The actual recoil remans the same it just feels different because the muzzle flip has been eliminated.

Amuzzle brake softens percieved recoil by directing exhaust gases rearward therby pulling the gun forward as the bullit leaves the barrel. The actual recoil is the same but the percieved recoil is different because it happens so fast we don't notice it.

Take the AR vrs AK accuracy debate. On rifles the pivot point is the shoulder. The barrel on an AK is raised above this point adding leravge to the muzzle flip, on an AR the barrel is in direct line with the shoulder mitigating that flip. Also the bullit is lighter making less recoil.

So the general principle is, the heavier the gun, the less recoil, the lighter the bullit the less recoil.

And less exhuast gass or direct the gasses to counteract other forces will less the muzzle rise or backward push by the gasses blast.

As for my comment on lessening th recoil of a .45 acp, most of the "felt" recoil is actually the weight of the slide slapping back. By dampening that with an additional spring plunger damper you don't really feel it much. All slide autos can be dampened that way assuming their is room in the action to add the damper. In a slide auto, much of the felt recoil is actually the weight of the slide.

I'm not a pistol expert but I did pay attention in physics class, I do posses a ported .44 and I have modified 1911's to soften their felt recoil and they can be softened quit a bit

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Old 04-20-2013, 07:46 PM   #24
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Also one other tidbit, FAT people percieve reoil differently that skinny people, because your blubber dampens the vibrations and adds "wieght" to the whole equation.

Think of this, if you were to fire a bullit that wieghed more than the combined wieght of the shooter and the gun. The bullit would basically stay in one place as the shooter and gun went flipping away.

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Old 04-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #25
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the recoil of the same cartridge in two different firearms is the same. what you experiance may be different is the felt recoil, but the recoil is still the same.

example: two 30-06 rifles. one weighs in at say, 6 lbs. and the other at say, 12 lbs. and both firing a 165 gr. bullet. both have the same amount of recoil, because both are firing the same weight of bullet, but the heavier 12 lb. rifle will have less felt recoil because the weight absorbs the recoil.

the amount of recoil doesn't change, just how it's absorbed or felt can be. just like how different grips can change the amount of felt recoil or even porting can change it.

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Old 04-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #26
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Also one other tidbit, FAT people percieve reoil differently that skinny people, because your blubber dampens the vibrations and adds "wieght" to the whole equation.

Think of this, if you were to fire a bullit that wieghed more than the combined wieght of the shooter and the gun. The bullit would basically stay in one place as the shooter and gun went flipping away.
lol, I think that's true.I am not a huge blob but I am 6' and 250, and I have never thought there was much difference between my 44 mag and 9mm handguns, yeah the 44 feels like it has a little more umph but not much or anything that bothers me.A 100 round session of the light mags(240@1200) don't bother me at all.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:21 AM   #27
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My wife actually preffers my 44 to my 9mm because when loaded with light 200gr 44 specials, she percives less recoil because the barrel is ported and the gun itself weighs twice as much as the 9 and their is no slide whipping around. She weighs 105 and I weigh 240. I fall into the fat catagory as in my case it ain't muscle.

Probly the easiest shooting gun from a pure design standpoint is the old luger. Low barrel, perfect grip angle and no giant slide racking back and forth adding to percieved recoil. If comfortable shooting is yu goal that's the gun to have.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:27 PM   #28
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The .44 and .357 are both wonderful!
Should you choose the .357, please do yourself a favor and begin with .38 spl. wadcutters. There isn't much recoil and they are cheaper and you can concentrate on position , sight picture, breathing, squeezing the trigger, and follow through. A longer barrel, at least 4" improves, the sight radius and makes the firearm easier to hit your target with. Ear protection is essential with a handgun. Start closer to your target and work back away from it. As you gain proficiency switch to the .357s , generally the 125 gr. and the 158 gr. bullets. After you're experienced the kit guns from Smith(3") and Ruger(4.1") make excellent companions and are easily carried.
The .44s are bigger and a more expensive. The 5" - 6 1/2" seem the most useful barrel lengths. If you start with the "cowboy action loads" you will wonder what the fuss and bother with a .44 magnum is all about. As you gain expertise increase the distance to your target and switch to the full power loads. You will have difficulty believing how accurate a .44 magnum is!
A 3" model 60 S&W carries easily and rides well in either a shoulder rig or for concealed carry a belt rig. Twenty rounds in speed loaders and in the cylinder carry easily. A full sized .44 is a heavy gun and the cartridges are also heavy. If you're carrying it all day working around the farm or hunting, a shoulder rig is a good way to go . I hunted elk with a guy with a cowboy rig, the first day he carried it, after that it stayed in his tent. A .357 will kill deer and a .44 will reach out with a lot more "thump". The "thump" factor means that it will take the .44 longer to get back on target, but if you master the .44 you are less likely to need a second shot.

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Old 04-22-2013, 12:12 PM   #29
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I'm not fat (5'10", 170 lbs), but I've not found .44 mag recoil to be all that abusive. I have 2 Dan Wesson revolers in .44 mag, with 4", 6", 8" interchangeable barrels, 3 Ruger Super Blackhawks, 2 with 7.5" barrels, 1 with 10" barrel. The recoil makes the gun flip up so the muzzle is pointing straight up, though, which makes aiming follow-up shots slow enough to be a problem in a self-defense situation. For that reason using .44 spl for defense is better than hefty magnum loads.
Some .357 revolvers are pretty light weight, so the muzzle flip can be significant with them. But just my personal opinion, .44 spl for defense is better than either magnum load and certainly better than .38 spl.

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Old 04-22-2013, 02:40 PM   #30
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IMO the .357 Magnum is the most powerful load in a handgun thats still practical for self defense , due ot recoil issues (pain that keeps you form trianing enough), cost of Ammo, etc etc.

357 Magnum is all you need to knock down anyone.

PS:Its also available commercially in extra hot FMJ loads with as much energy as a lower range 44 Mag , and so I would not be surpsied it it penetrate some body armor a commercial 44 Mag in LRN of HP would not ( even though of course you coudl load the 44 Mag even hottter and out in in FMJ)

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