No Formal Training Required
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:10 PM   #1
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Last week, a man licensed to carry, had been assaulted in a neighboring state. The victim called on his cell phone to advise authorities that he was following the badguy from Minnesota, into South Dakota and that the South Dakota authorities should be alerted.

So far, so good. Upon reaching the state line, a Deputy responding with lights and siren got into the fray. This is where it all went south, the victim exits he's vehicle and draws down on the person who assaulted him. The Deputy, doing his job, and not knowing who the good guy was, shot the good guy(he had the only gun)several times.

It was stated, however not confirmed at this time, that the person shot was a South Dakota resident. In South Dakota, we have open carry, a good thing. We also have a permit system that requires no training. Your only requirement is being a law abiding citizen. On paper it sounds great, however you can't get out of bed one day, never having driven a motor vehicle, go to the DMV and pay for a drivers license and get it. You must prove that you can safely operate the vehicle. You must also learn to avoid certain things that could put you or others in danger.

This situation could have been avoided in so many ways. The news did not say what kind of assault, so if it were simple assault. You know, punch, pushing, etc....the victim might have been better served by getting the plate number, and a good description of the suspect to provided to police. Not knowing the kind of assault, I will not comment further on that aspect, but you see my point.

If he decided to give chase, which he did, he would have been wise to do just that. When the police arrived, let them take care of it. They have the neat car with the pretty lights on top. They wear uniforms that identify them as the good guys, so mistaken identity just won't fly.

The point I am making here is that more attention should be made in training people on what to do when dealing with law enforcement in a critical incident. These are things that are stressed in Concealed Carry Classes where they are required. Knowing the state's penal code regarding the use of deadly force, and other valuable lessons.

We all want the right to carry, as the right to self-defense is a God given one. However, our missteps will always be used to quash that right. Not to mention that the possible loss of life due to ignorance is shameful and unnecessary. I have been attempting to work with legislators in our state to get some changes made. Some would increase the reciprocity with other states, and some would provide needed training to any and all who wish to responsibly exercise their rights. It has not been very promising, but I will continue to fight the good fight.

In the meantime, if any of my brothers and sisters in arms wish to fill in the gaps in there concealed carry knowledge, there are many resources available. This site has great information. As a Texas Concealed Carry Instructor, I would be happy to answer some of your questions.

I am also preparing a condensed South Dakota Penal Code, related to the use of firearms for defense that I will post here for your inspection. We carry in the hope that we never have to draw our weapons, and if we must fire that only the person whom we intend to shoot is incapacitated. No collateral damage is ever reasonably. Nor is being shot by a cop.

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Old 02-21-2012, 06:43 PM   #2
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Common sense would tell you not to pull a firearm when the cops are around. Sounds like a defective gene pool to me. No amount of training is going to fix stupid. As far as training and licensing drivers goes that is an abysmal failure, as evidenced by the amount of deaths every year on the highways.

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Old 02-21-2012, 07:03 PM   #3
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RJD you are correct. It sounds like a Texas transplant wants to make the bucks in ND that they make in Texas. He is asking to turn back the clock. I can recall when ND gun laws were all in the hands of the local SOs not good. I hope the gun owners in ND put a stop to this antifreedom move. This is a classic let the government do it argument. Find some isolated gun screw up blow it up and offer the gun fearing public an answer. Let me control these idiot gun owners for you. For a small fee of course.

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Old 02-22-2012, 12:38 AM   #4
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To those who wish to do nothing more than throw stones, it is your right. I am not here to make money, if I am not mistaken I have not even suggested it. However if I choose to do so, and people want to pay for my services it is none of your business. I do fine in my business,and my pension. In truth, I don't have to lift a finger to support my wife and I.

It is simply a matter of putting the information out there. Not everyone is as astute as your are Mr. DurangoKid. In fact, if I was seeking compensation for any of the things I have done, what have you got against "Free Enterprise". Clearly you know everything about firearms and shooting. You know absolutely nothing about me. Nor will your self righteous opinions keep me from making my views known.

I don't scare easily, I been shot at, nearly run over, and fought hand to hand with three time losers. Your comments have very little effect on me other than to press on.

In fact, as long as you are throwing stones at me, I am more sure than ever that I am on the right side of the issue. I look forward to your wit and wisdom in the very near future.

I am sure of one thing though, in this forum, I have as much right to be here as you do. I was under the impression that this was a place where there was the free exchange of ideas. Not everyone here has the experience that you might have, and therefore may benefit by the patient hand of a experienced person to guide them. Maybe I am mistaken by my impressions.

I on the other hand will not be silenced by the likes of you. Read my post, comment negatively if you must, but I will post regardless. Oh! Get it right I am in South Dakota.

Have a great day, and continue to enjoy the freedoms that civilian ownership of firearms protects. I look forward to reading your next post.

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Old 02-22-2012, 12:56 AM   #5
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I will help NRA members in our sister state to fight your attack on their freedom. You may post any thing any time I could care less. You have a liberal bent that is scary. Anyone who wants to change the balance of firearms ownership in favor of the politicians is an enemy of gun owners. And yes you are out to turn a dollar for robbing the people of their freedom.

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Old 02-22-2012, 01:29 AM   #6
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As stated before, you know nothing about me. Could it be that you believe I have a liberal slant because I am black? Again you have no idea of what political bent I have. Nor do I feel the need to discuss it with you. We will agree to disagree! I am willing to bet that I have done more to further the security of the second amendment, and recruit NRA members than you have. I have the medals and the students to prove it. What have you done to further the cause, other than snide remarks about how stupid people are?

Your rhetoric would be better spent in areas where you are not preaching to the choir. It is easy to hide behind the anonymity of a website, behind the photo of a Saturday morning serial bad-guy, than to go where people don't share your ideas. We are not on opposite sides of the gun ownership issues, where I have a bone to pick with you is where people post legitimate questions and you have a non-helpful comment.

I love these forums where you have guys who get a following, and then think they have a license to step on any and all people who you decide haven't paid homage to you. Some people talk, and others do. I will take an educated guess where you stand.

Sir, I will pit my resume' with my service in the military, law enforcement, and my volunteer time teaching child firearm safety, and shooting classes any day of the week.

If the truth be known, gun control in this country got it's start during post civil war "Reconstruction". It was designed to keep firearms out of the hands of "Freedmen". I have a far greater interest in this issue than you could ever know. Oh, surely you don't think that you are the only one with an NRA card? There are black members too, of which I am proud to be counted. Nuff Said!

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Old 02-22-2012, 01:34 AM   #7
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Dragon, don't let him get under your skin, his opinions are exclusively his own...

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Old 02-22-2012, 01:52 AM   #8
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Wow, this became a race issue real fast.
Interesting

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Old 02-22-2012, 02:01 AM   #9
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I will be contacting my shooting friends in Rapid City right away. I can see you are out to bring gun control their state. The Left Wingers come in all colors.

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Old 02-22-2012, 02:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincent View Post
Dragon, don't let him get under your skin, his opinions are exclusively his own...

Ah yeah, well said. Forums are all about opinions, like em or not. Dragon, please don't kill your own thread with the defensive rants. That said, I'll try and contribute something useful. Washington State has similar concealed carry laws to SD and I personally know some people in WA that have or want to carry that scare the hell out of me. Not that they're dangerous, I just question their competence. In Oregon a class is required and that settles my mind a bit. Except for the incident where a Portland man with a CC permit opened fire on two kids fleeing a robbery of a F$%king Iphone from an Apple store. It wasn't even real, it was a demo.

Fortunately, no one was hurt. The man was arrested for reckless endangerment (and a list of other offenses) and will not be allowed to carry again. Whats my point? Classes or not, permitted or not, some people are just too stupid for everyone's sake. Including the fool in The OP story. That was Darwinism at work.

If you really want to make the public safer with CCW, a broad education approach is needed. Take advantage at every turn to inform the public of the mistakes of others and the consequences.
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