Is a CHL Just A Luck Rabbit's Foot? - Page 2
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:04 PM   #11
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I come down somewhere nearer the Darwinian approach of Axxe55 than the viewpoint of rjd3282.

CardiacColt 68 says that "training and learning are a gun owner's personal responsibility, and no matter what is mandated idiots will slip through the cracks. We live in an imperfect world. " Wise words.

Here's why I am turning away people who just don't get it:

1. They are not my responsibility.
2. They may become my responsibility, i.e., liability, if I do give them just a minimum certificate course, then turn them loose on an unsuspecting world.
3. I agree that many untrained people are fortunate enough to have used a gun - sometimes without firing a shot - to defend themselves and/or others successfully. But I can't train you to be lucky.
4. I'm not saying who has the right to self defense. That's the job of the legislature and the courts. I'm just here to pass the word.
5. I'm concentrating on those who will benefit from use of force training, like CardiacColt 68, rather than wasting my time on ignorant know-it-alls.

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Old 08-30-2013, 06:51 PM   #12
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I think we would all agree that someone who gets a CHL should learn the law regarding the use of deadly force in their state, and should get as much additional training as they can reasonably afford.

If they don't take the opportunity to do so, and get in legal difficulty, it of course, falls on them directly, but unfortunatley it often has collateral consequences that adversely affect the rest of us.

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Old 08-31-2013, 04:46 PM   #13
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Washington State is a shall issue. Guess you might say it's close to a lucky Rabbits foot.

Although liberal today, our founding fathers of the Washington State Constitution didn't feel that our "government" should decide these things.

If we had it my way, if someone wanted to carry they could and would. Why should a law abiding citizen be penalized, while the crook can carry.

I think training would be a good thing, and I would encourage it, but I don't think I want the state or an officious instructor to make the call for individuals.

Armed and Safe since 1974.... with a Wa State 'Lucky Rabbit's Foot"


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Old 08-31-2013, 04:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LProf View Post
I think we would all agree that someone who gets a CHL should learn the law regarding the use of deadly force in their state, and should get as much additional training as they can reasonably afford.

If they don't take the opportunity to do so, and get in legal difficulty, it of course, falls on them directly, but unfortunatley it often has collateral consequences that adversely affect the rest of us.
Agree on SHOULD. . .

I sure would like to see how the otherwise law abiding and honest citizen fairs under restrictions mandated by 'gov'


I'm not sure any level of training would protect me from Chicago Rules. I think that the otherwise law abiding citizen would be jeopardized by the stupid Chicago laws, far greater than in a state like Arizona or Alaska that allows carry without 'government approval'.

Sure there is always a possibility of a 'Zimmerman/martin' type of trial, but many untrained people legally defend themselves without prosecutions.

Training may or may not help in a over regulated, restricted locale.
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:06 PM   #15
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I'd be more worried about the media making a mess of things,

or proper legal representation.

I agree more with rjd3282.

This sounds a lot like that firing range owner

who thought it was better to "look at the way

someone holds a gun" , instead of hiring NRA

trained RSOs.

Look at it this way: They already got their CHL, which

included gun safety, did it not? So if they got this training,

there is also a good chance they may get more. In the

meantime, at the very worst, all you are doing is putting

a gun in the hands of the LAC, which is RKBA at it's finest,

considering the clean background check of ANY LAC who

gets a CHL.

Think about it these guys all have a clean criminal record,

No substance abuse, alcoholism, or domestic violence. These

folks are the creme' de la creme' of society, and statistically

they show incredible responsibility with firearms.

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Old 08-31-2013, 06:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirearmsInstructor View Post
I come down somewhere nearer the Darwinian approach of Axxe55 than the viewpoint of rjd3282.

CardiacColt 68 says that "training and learning are a gun owner's personal responsibility, and no matter what is mandated idiots will slip through the cracks. We live in an imperfect world. " Wise words.

Here's why I am turning away people who just don't get it:

1. They are not my responsibility.
2. They may become my responsibility, i.e., liability, if I do give them just a minimum certificate course, then turn them loose on an unsuspecting world.
3. I agree that many untrained people are fortunate enough to have used a gun - sometimes without firing a shot - to defend themselves and/or others successfully. But I can't train you to be lucky.
4. I'm not saying who has the right to self defense. That's the job of the legislature and the courts. I'm just here to pass the word.
5. I'm concentrating on those who will benefit from use of force training, like CardiacColt 68, rather than wasting my time on ignorant know-it-alls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LProf View Post
I think we would all agree that someone who gets a CHL should learn the law regarding the use of deadly force in their state, and should get as much additional training as they can reasonably afford.

If they don't take the opportunity to do so, and get in legal difficulty, it of course, falls on them directly, but unfortunatley it often has collateral consequences that adversely affect the rest of us.
my premise is that it is the responsiblity of ther person with a gun to know the laws of their state. it comes back to the old saying, "ignorance is no excuse" that seems to apply.

i believe that every LAC should be afforded the right to protect themselves in any legal manner they choose to. if that person chosses a firearm for protection, then it IMO comes with a certain amount of responsibility. part of that is knowing what you can or can't do legally. knowing firearm laws of the state you live in are paramount and the responsiblity of the owner of that firearm.

i am not talking about training with that firearm, but i think that should be something a person should do as well.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:25 PM   #17
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I don't even agree with the necessity of the license. Let alone an instructor's opinion on further training.

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Old 08-31-2013, 06:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMcCool View Post
I don't even agree with the necessity of the license. Let alone an instructor's opinion on further training.
i agree. i just think that a person should use some common sense and make the effort to at least learn the laws concerning their states firearms laws.

an intructors opinion on further training is just that, an opinion.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirearmsInstructor View Post
Is a CHL Just A Lucky Rabbit's Foot? Does It Make You Safe Without Training? ...
I appreciate your call - otherwise a recipe for disaster...

(Let's see, foot on someone's key chain? Doesn't sound like it worked for the rabbit.)
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:44 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=Axxe55;1352952] "ignorance is no excuse" that seems

to apply./QUOTE]

My problem with this, is that LEOs don't know many laws,

and for them, somehow the very icons of justice in society,

IF THEY DON'T KNOW THE LAW, it's just A-OKAY???

Double standards, IMHO, are a BIG part of what's destroying society

today.

IMO, If WE gotta know the law, THEY gotta know the law. They should know

it better than we do, because they have to enforce it.

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