Is a CHL Just A Luck Rabbit's Foot?
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:07 PM   #1
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Default Is a CHL Just A Luck Rabbit's Foot?

Is a CHL Just A Lucky Rabbit's Foot? Does It Make You Safe Without Training?

I've been turning away people who only want a concealed handgun class, but don't want to learn about the rules for deadly force. I've come to the conclusion that if they aren't willing to learn how to drive, or to learn the rules of the road, then maybe they shouldn't have a driver's license.

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:09 PM   #2
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Where are you from? Most states that require a handgun carry permit holder to take a class usually mandate that alot of the classroom time is in fact spent on deadly force laws,along with proper gun safety.

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:14 PM   #3
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Oregon's law just requires safety training. Also, most non-lawyers can't do a very good job with deadly force law.

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:15 PM   #4
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I offer courses for new hunters on how to shoot handguns, rifles and shotguns. The understanding of laws and use of deadly force is mandatory over here. It is also a big part of the hunting exam. I am with you man. You can sleep with a good conscience.

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:19 PM   #5
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You don't have to learn all of the ins and outs of driving in order to get your permit, just the basics. You really start to learn after you get your license, buy a car and hit the road.
A firearms license is no different. you can only teach people so much anyway. Beyond that they need to seek further training or learn on their own.

BTW you spelled firearm wrong. Lol

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
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Thanks mountainman 13. Next time I'll put on my reading glasses when i type.

I think you describe what should ideally happen. Especially in these times, though, I don't see a lot of CHL licensees following up with further training. Yet they have a gun and think they're "safe." Here's what I'm worried about:

YOU'VE BEEN SUBPOENAED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, where you aren't allowed to have your lawyer present. How do you explain why you shot and killed the person who attempted to carjack you? You thought they were armed, but the police didn't find a weapon. You gave a statement to the police at the scene, before you spoke with your lawyer. NOW YOU'RE THE SUSPECT IN A MURDER INVESTIGATION.*How much should you have said when the police questioned you? You have calmed down after the initial shock, *and now you remember more details that you didn't tell the police. Will the grand jury think you are making them up?*What do you say to the grand jury to stay out of jail?

ARE YOU PREPARED FOR THE LEGAL AFTERMATH?*Because simply having a gun or getting a concealed carry license doesn't protect you from the overpowering consequences of a self-defense shooting. If you don't know what to do and say NOW, you could end up in prison. Just having a gun without knowing how to survive the aftermath doesn't protect you or your family.*

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:42 PM   #7
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You're Absolutely right and knowing the laws should be priority one, but That's just not how people are nowadays. Most are bothered enough by the hoops they have to jump through to take advantage of their second amendment rights.
Turning people down doesn't really help them or you in any way. You'll develope a reputation and they'll go somewhere else.
Offering two levels of education would be a better option. You can certainly strongly suggest the extra training, but many will do the minimum required by law.

I agree with your sentiment but it may not be the best approach. We need as many law abiding firearm owners as we can get these days.

One of the mods may be able to fix your handle.

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Old 08-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrirearmsInstructor View Post
Thanks mountainman 13. Next time I'll put on my reading glasses when i type.

I think you describe what should ideally happen. Especially in these times, though, I don't see a lot of CHL licensees following up with further training. Yet they have a gun and think they're "safe." Here's what I'm worried about:

YOU'VE BEEN SUBPOENAED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, where you aren't allowed to have your lawyer present. How do you explain why you shot and killed the person who attempted to carjack you? You thought they were armed, but the police didn't find a weapon. You gave a statement to the police at the scene, before you spoke with your lawyer. NOW YOU'RE THE SUSPECT IN A MURDER INVESTIGATION.*How much should you have said when the police questioned you? You have calmed down after the initial shock, *and now you remember more details that you didn't tell the police. Will the grand jury think you are making them up?*What do you say to the grand jury to stay out of jail?

ARE YOU PREPARED FOR THE LEGAL AFTERMATH?*Because simply having a gun or getting a concealed carry license doesn't protect you from the overpowering consequences of a self-defense shooting. If you don't know what to do and say NOW, you could end up in prison. Just having a gun without knowing how to survive the aftermath doesn't protect you or your family.*
sadly these are the people who don't feel the need to learn about the laws of carrying that in the event of having to use a firearm in SD situation will then wish they had. they will pretty much be screwed over for that lack of knowledge.

i'm sorry, but i just can't have any sympathy for someone who is too stupid to get more training when they need it and refuse to because they don't feel the need to. let them learn the hard way. just keep doing things the way you are.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrirearmsInstructor
Thanks mountainman 13. Next time I'll put on my reading glasses when i type.

I think you describe what should ideally happen. Especially in these times, though, I don't see a lot of CHL licensees following up with further training. Yet they have a gun and think they're "safe." Here's what I'm worried about:

YOU'VE BEEN SUBPOENAED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, where you aren't allowed to have your lawyer present. How do you explain why you shot and killed the person who attempted to carjack you? You thought they were armed, but the police didn't find a weapon. You gave a statement to the police at the scene, before you spoke with your lawyer. NOW YOU'RE THE SUSPECT IN A MURDER INVESTIGATION.*How much should you have said when the police questioned you? You have calmed down after the initial shock, *and now you remember more details that you didn't tell the police. Will the grand jury think you are making them up?*What do you say to the grand jury to stay out of jail?

ARE YOU PREPARED FOR THE LEGAL AFTERMATH?*Because simply having a gun or getting a concealed carry license doesn't protect you from the overpowering consequences of a self-defense shooting. If you don't know what to do and say NOW, you could end up in prison. Just having a gun without knowing how to survive the aftermath doesn't protect you or your family.*

I took my CCP test here in NC a few weeks ago. Here's my take from a relatively new guy perspective. I took a range safety class when I bought my first gun. Then I took the NRA First Steps Class about 1 month later.

The NC class was 1/2 the First Steps class. All repetitive, and not at all anything that would make me confident with CC. The second half of the day was split between a shooting test and a classroom session strictly about the legal issues. The shooting test was very simple, and did not require a holster or method of carrying. IMO it was too easy. The classroom session was good, and the instructors did a good job given the time limitations. Plus, almost NONE of us will ever be prepared to handle the questioning and legal ramifications of a SD shooting. That's why lawyers exist. I have read about 3 books, and countless web forums. But I still won't be prepared. i will shut up and hire a lawyer if I am ever that unfortunate. I do agree that many people are woefully unprepared to be carrying a firearm. But training and learning are a gun owner's personal responsibility, and no matter what is mandated idiots will slip through the cracks. We live in an imperfect world.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:35 AM   #10
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So you think it's better that they have no chance at all? Lot's of old ladies deter home invaders all the time and they don't have any training. Maybe they should just sell their weapons and be totally defenseless. You have the same mentality as the government that is trying to disarm us. Who died and left you in charge of who has the right to self defense as long as it's on your terms. Many people don't have the money for the training. I think maybe you should pull the holier than thou stick out and start helping these people instead of looking down your nose at them.

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