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Why is 9mm considered such a bad SD round?


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Old 06-02-2012, 04:29 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Kenney

We're not saying it didn't happen, we just don't believe you. But I started this thread and said to kill it 90+ post ago. So someone do me the favor.
That makes no sense at all. If you don't believe me then you're saying it didn't happen. And that's fine I knew there would be one or two and that's why I hesitated to even post it but whatever. I'm gone.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:34 PM   #112
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IDK, I carry my 92 during the day.

(unless I'm having "abandonment issues"

and I switch to the .44 ) I like having 18 rounds

before reload at my disposal. It's 3 times more than

a wheel gun, and IMHO, three times more accurate.


But at night I switch to the comfort of a .45. (generally)

By then,(generally) I'm having a beer, and watching a

movie, on the couch.

Perhaps we should "sticky" some of this commonly

repeated "9mm impotency" "9mm vs 45ACP" and

"WHAT, YOU DON'T USE .40S&W? YOU ARE SATAN!"

thread posturing for noobs to see up front, and save time...
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:20 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by broke-again124 View Post
Okay. Everyone knows you know it all anyways, so if you didn't see it...well hell, it just couldn't have happened. By the way every time you write something to me you come across as a total argumentative dick head. You should work on that.
It's mostly that 98% of the guys here are too polite to call bullshet on such---
I'm not
But i still don't resort to childish name calling--

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Old 06-02-2012, 11:06 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTJ

The 357 did not always come as a hollow point design. Later there were semi jacketed HP rounds but the first transition to the modern HP was back in late 60's or early 70"s with the design of a hollow cavity bullet for re loaders. The mfgs took to the new design and the rest is history. I recovered some bullets that had expanded from .357 to .73 from a 4" barrel into sand or phone books.
I have never jammed my G36 45ACP but I jammed a Ruger Redhawk so bad I thought it would have to go to the shop. Primer backed out on a factory load and locked it up. Since I could not leave the firing line or range with a loaded weapon the range master helped me get it open and it took both of us. I had a tiny bit of debris get under the ejector star while reloading an SP101 and the cylinder would not close. The only failure to fire on the G36 was a bad primer. I have not had any failures with my XD45c.
The over penetration problem with the 9mm was due to bullet design. Early on Hardball was all there was. The advent of the modern HP has pretty much eliminated the over penetration problem. When the FBI was transitioning away from the 38spl and 9mm, they adopted the 9mm 147 grain Hp load. They attempted to go to the 10mm but had to down load it because of training/control problems. The S&W 40 which is equivalent to the down loaded 10mm came into being. The 357 Sig approximates the 125 grain 357 load from a 4" barrel. Nothing but a souped up 9mm as is the 357 mag. There is only .002" diameter difference between the 9mm and the 38spl/357 mag.
+ 1000 on the revolver failures. The myth that they are more reliable than modern autoloaders is just that. A myth.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:44 AM   #115
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Personally I believe the 9mm is a very efficient round... the spread statistically of a one stop shot from any handgun is not that varied and the 9mm has proven itself time and time again with military, law enforcement, and concealed carry holders... id bet me life with it...
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:42 AM   #116
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Chandler,
you are wrong sir, are there anecdotal stories of revolver failures, yes there are. By design, however autoloaders are more prone to malfuntion.

Though any gun may fail because of improper maintenance, or broken parts, even bad ammo.

Revolvers, never 3 point bind or stove pipe, never fail to load because of lost magazines or dented lips. Revolvers generally, don't have safties that fail rendering them inoperable.

You will never have to rack the slide on a revolver because of a misfire or a failure to load.

Anyway, I don't think you critically examined your comment.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:15 AM   #117
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I was thinking that JTJ's revolver problems were simply due to the fact that they were Ruger's...

My first Military pistol was the bloody blue wombats (1911's chambered for .22lr) from the Navy in 1986...
I thought, "this is a clunky rascal...", got my ribbon and moved on...
I like the look of the 1911's, just ain't real fond of low capacity pistols that weigh a ton...
If I want a 5# pistol, I'll use my Calico w/100-rd mag of 9mm, thankyewverymuch!!

My first semi-auto pistol was a Star model 30P, now THAT was the pinnacle of the Wonder-Nine up until Glock got froggy...
15+1, all-day-long reliability, and grouped quite well

My wife carries a Taurus 24/7 C (Compact) in 9mm that holds 17+1,
but wants the .40 version because it comes in Pink...gah...
what the heck, she's a retired Jarhead, if she wants pink, she can have pink

My current carry, after many years of shooting a wide variety of weapons...is a Glock 20SF in 10mm.
Reason being, I prefer to make sure anything I shoot gets BIG holes and BIG wound channel...
not to mention the 17+1 mags make it viable against bear...
(I got the +2 mag extenders...gives you 17 rounds to work with...)

Downside of 9mm, during my collegiate studies, we were shown a vid of a guy who was shooting at cops from his front porch...
the guy took 19 hits from the officers 9mm rounds, including two head shots...yet continued to shoot back...
until he ran out of ammo, at which point he threw his gun and Charged at the officers nearest him...
fortunately he was then taken out by two 12g shotgun blasts...one to the chest, one to the head...
that's when I bought my first Calico w 50 & 100rd mags...if you are gonna use 9mm, have a LOT of it handy!!!
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:53 AM   #118
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From a loading standpoint,the 9 is a "high pressure" cartridge........least wise thats what I've always read.And considering its one of,but a mighty few....taper'd handgun cases,I'd have to agree.

Its been my experience handloading for them for a loooooong time that they ARE generally more happy at the upper end of the pressure spectrum.That ain't no small statement cause,it sort of defines what bullets work and which don't work.And to a slightly,lessor degree.....which handguns they work with.

Then you look at other calibres on the loading bench....be it factory or homebrew.You'll notice that most have a much broader window as to what works thna the 9.This same idea or notion applies to auto's vs revolvers.Which,has a broader ammo window?Just a cpl things I feel that usually gets left out of discussions like these?

I sure wish there was a good 9 that "liked" medium velocity,cast bullets.The Hi-power has been the best so far.But will continue to look..........
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:31 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big shrek View Post
I was thinking that JTJ's revolver problems were simply due to the fact that they were Ruger's...

My first Military pistol was the bloody blue wombats (1911's chambered for .22lr) from the Navy in 1986...
I thought, "this is a clunky rascal...", got my ribbon and moved on...
I like the look of the 1911's, just ain't real fond of low capacity pistols that weigh a ton...
If I want a 5# pistol, I'll use my Calico w/100-rd mag of 9mm, thankyewverymuch!!

My first semi-auto pistol was a Star model 30P, now THAT was the pinnacle of the Wonder-Nine up until Glock got froggy...
15+1, all-day-long reliability, and grouped quite well

My wife carries a Taurus 24/7 C (Compact) in 9mm that holds 17+1,
but wants the .40 version because it comes in Pink...gah...
what the heck, she's a retired Jarhead, if she wants pink, she can have pink

My current carry, after many years of shooting a wide variety of weapons...is a Glock 20SF in 10mm.
Reason being, I prefer to make sure anything I shoot gets BIG holes and BIG wound channel...
not to mention the 17+1 mags make it viable against bear...
(I got the +2 mag extenders...gives you 17 rounds to work with...)

Downside of 9mm, during my collegiate studies, we were shown a vid of a guy who was shooting at cops from his front porch...
the guy took 19 hits from the officers 9mm rounds, including two head shots...yet continued to shoot back...
until he ran out of ammo, at which point he threw his gun and Charged at the officers nearest him...
fortunately he was then taken out by two 12g shotgun blasts...one to the chest, one to the head...
that's when I bought my first Calico w 50 & 100rd mags...if you are gonna use 9mm, have a LOT of it handy!!!

How do you know the outcome would have being different if they were using another pistol caliber. ?
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:42 PM   #120
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IMO, it's one of the most efficient pistol rounds.

That's why the Wehrmacht used it, that's why the

Army adopted it, and that's why it's still so popular

worldwide today.

Anything this good, popular, and widespread is bound

to be open to constant criticism.
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