Striker vs. hammer? - Page 2
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:44 PM   #11
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I just find pistols w/ hammer more "sexy"...enough reason for me LOL.

That said, I have no problem with my XDm striker pistol.

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Old 06-27-2011, 09:31 PM   #12
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I personally like the longer, heavier 1st shot of a DA/SA gun compared to the less heavy trigger of a striker fired gun... So, I like guns with external hammers... The only exception to this is the Walther P99 A/S, which is a striker fired DA/SA gun.

While this POSSIBLY gets outside of the scope of the original post, I will say that my reason for preferring this is a safety issue (not a gun with a safety, but because I think this is safer in general)

I've previously carried 1911s and Glocks for years. However, I am somewhat at a different point now, after all these years of carrying and owning different guns (I have owned a LOT of different platforms)

I had a near robbery in the parking lot of my local gunstore about 2 years ago. I saw the situation happening, and I managed to avoid the guy and cut threw some cars and jump down a level in the parking lot. The guy cut off pursuit of me after a few moments.

All I had was a Keltec 32 in my front pocket, as I was taking my Beretta 92 into the store to try it for laser grips... (it wasn't yet my carry gun anyway) So, I was walking with that in a gun case.

I kept my wits, but the situation showed me what it was like when the adrenaline kicks in. Your thought process changes. It's not the same as all the practice you put in at the range - or how you THINK you should or will react in a situation.

I also had an old friend from when I was a teen (hadn't seen him in many years) - I recently found out a story about him that happened a few years ago... He apparently was getting car jacked (back in Louisiana), and he grabbed his gun from the center console as he started to comply to get out the car. Guess what he did... As he swept himself with the muzzle to bring the gun in an aiming position, he shot himself in the knee/leg. Boom... Now, he walks with a limp all the time and can't get around well...

Dumb? Yes. Can I see how it could easily happen in a super high stress situation? Yes, I can. Especially after seeing how your thoughts change during the adrenaline dump... Plus, look at all the accidental discharges that are stupidly done by law enforcement officers who carry Glocks. And, people ARE people. We all screw up and make mistakes throughout our lives, even with stuff we practice. So, it's easy to say "the real safety is in your head" - but people mess up sometimes in normal situations... What could happen in an adrenaline dump?

After my personal experience event, I re-evaluated some issues with my carry gun. For a while, I temporarily switched to a 45... I'm back to a 9mm now. But, I no longer carry a gun that needs to be cocked and locked (1911, USP compact that I sometimes kept cocked and locked at the time). I don't want to stupidly forget to deactivate a thumb safety.

And, I also got rid of the Keltec 32... I REALLY, REALLY felt bad in the situation thinking that all I had to defend myself with was a 32 FMJ round. (32 JHP isn't really as effective in that caliber as FMJ)

I also will no longer carry a gun that has a trigger like a Glock, M&P, XD. That short, light trigger too easily could replicate what happened to my friend shooting himself. Also, I get my untucked shirt caught in my IWB holster somewhat frequently when holstering/reholstering at home...

Do this with a Glock - boom.

Do it with even an XD (with the grip safety) - boom (one would probably have their hand in place over the grip safety while holstering).

Do this with a 1911 - and forget to reactivate the thumb safety even ONE time - boom.

The DA/SA trigger of my 92... I do try to be careful, but I know there won't be an A/D when I do this or when I try to clear the shirt from the holster...

Am I over worrying about this situation? Maybe. I admit that I carried a Glock 26 for 8 years previously (OWB or in my pocket, though - not IWB). I also once carried a 1911 (OWB - not IWB). But I’ve owned tons of different guns since then, and my preferences and ideas on the issues have changed.

That experience "I" had showed me I wanted a gun that I could pull and shoot - without deactivation of anything... But, I also didn't want TOO light/short of a trigger. So, the DA/SA trigger is my preference now. And, with a "D" spring, the DA pull of my Beretta 92s are down from 11.5+lbs to 8.2-8.5lbs. Still heavy enough (and long enough of a trigger pull) to keep me honest. But, not too heavy.

I also never hardly EVER practiced my first shot in double action on DA/SA guns I've owned over the years. Nor, did I practice 1 handed shooting. Since that near robbery experience, I have done both. I do it a LOT.

My issues that I personally have stated above sorta keeps me from buying another Glock, or another XD or an M&P or a Walther PPQ as well - as without a DA/SA trigger, it would always be delegated to just a range toy... Not for carry usage...

I REALLY like the look of the 9mm XDm with the stainless slide as well. I may or may not buy one eventually. But, I'd never carry it for the lack of DA/SA.

That's why I like my PX4 Storm so much, I suppose (my 1 real, fullsize polymer gun - as I tend to go for metal guns that I can place rubber grips onto).

Anyway - I'm not telling ya what to do. Carry what and how you like. Disagree with my personal decision... That's fine... Just throwing something out there for some people who may not have considered some of these issues...

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Old 06-27-2011, 09:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyFoFaad View Post
Scratchammo covers it pretty well. I'll just add that once you chamber a striker auto, that firing pin spring is compressed ... over a long period of time that spring will start to set. That doesn't happen with a hammer down.


If, a striker auto's safety is off & the gun is dropped, the right blow can cause the gun to fire ... and ... it's a lot easier to accidently flip off a safety than it is to accidently fully cock a hammer. Since modern autos with hammers use an inertia firing pin, it is impossible for them to accidently fire without a full whack of the hammer.


Hammer down, one in the chute ... it doesn't get any faster or safer. Even with a SA auto, cocking the hammer should be as hard wired in your head as the action of removing the piece from your holster.


Lastly ... question to Scratchammo ... what the heck is that avatar?
The firing pin being compressed isn't necessarily true. Every brand has their own mechanics. The only thing compressing them on many striker fired guns is the spring being stuck to the striker itself - so, it's being held captive. Many guns do not have a rotation to change the striker spring, like them may have for a trigger return spring or extractor spring.

So, while I think a DA/SA with an external hammer is safer (for reasons posted above), this isn't a valid reason INHO.

And, all modern autos have a firing pin block. So, dropping a striker fired gun will not set it off.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
That's why I like my PX4 Storm so much, I suppose (my 1 real, fullsize polymer gun - as I tend to go for metal guns that I can place rubber grips onto).
Wow, that was a GREAT post! I normally skip long rants like that, but you had me from the start. I couldn't wait to hear your final assessment. Now I know why my shooting buddy likes his PX4 so much.

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Old 06-27-2011, 10:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
Wow, that was a GREAT post! I normally skip long rants like that, but you had me from the start. I couldn't wait to hear your final assessment. Now I know why my shooting buddy likes his PX4 so much.

Ever thought of joining the ranks as a Supporting Member? We have cookies...
Haha, thanks. Glad you liked my post. I didn't mean to be as long winded, but it just took a while to write everything.

We'll see about the supporting membership. maybe so
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyFoFaad View Post
No, handguns that utilize an external hammer have firing pin blocks ... I have yet to see a schematic on a "striker type weapon" that utilized a firing pin block.


Actually, the term firing pin block, is somewhat misleading inasmuch as what is actually being blocked is the external hammer ... preventing same from striking the firing pin assembly. Okeedoak?
That's not true. I have eight Beretta 92 variants AND a Beretta PX4. ALL of them have a firing pin block. Look underneath the slide from the bottom. That roundish shaped piece that can be pushed in. That's the firing pin block.

Try pushing the firing pin in. It will NOT protrude unless you press the safety plunger inwards. That keeps the firing pin from hitting the primer until the trigger is pulled. This 1 safety has nothing to do with any other safeties that affect the motion of the hammer. This is the block that prevents the firing pin from hitting the primer and setting the gun off.

This is in addition to the way the safety rotates the rear section of the firing pin assembly on the Berettas...

But, I'm talking about the firing pin safety that prevents a discharge from the gun being dropped. Several other external hammer guns have this as well.

Now, a 1911 does not, unless it is a series 80 or has a swartz safety. HK's with the external hammer ALSO have the firing pin safety as well.

I have also disassembled Kahr slides as well as Walther P99 slides. They too, like other striker fired guns DO have a firing pin safety.

Pretty much any modern design has one.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:29 PM   #17
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1911A1 (series 70) have half cock notches that act as an early firing pin safety as they are designed to be carried cockednlocked. the half cock notch is designed to arrest the hammer before hitting the pin in case its dropped with the safety off and the sear lets the hammer fly forward.

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Old 06-27-2011, 11:30 PM   #18
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I agree with Shipwreck....My S&W 5906 (old), Sig SP2022, and CZ 75 SP-01 all have a firing pin disconnect.

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Old 06-27-2011, 11:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JonM View Post
1911A1 (series 70) have half cock notches that act as an early firing pin safety as they are designed to be carried cockednlocked. the half cock notch is designed to arrest the hammer before hitting the pin in case its dropped with the safety off and the sear lets the hammer fly forward.
Yes - but current guns, like Springfields and others, have titanium or extra light firing pins, and an extra strong firing pin spring. That's how they alleviate an accidental discharge of the gun should it be dropped - and how they have passed drop tests that various states have imposed. There is a half cock (Hks and my Berettas and most other external hammered firearms of modern design also have that half cock), but that's not really considered a firing pin safety...
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:59 PM   #20
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Actually - I now understand what you are talking about - but I am afraid that you have it mixed up. The internal part of the slide that blocks the firing pin IS the firing pin block.

See below:

Quote:
Firing pin block
A firing pin block is a mechanical block used in semi-automatic firearms and some revolvers that, when at rest, obstructs forward travel of the firing pin, but is linked to the trigger mechanism and clears the obstruction to the pin just before the hammer or striker is released. This prevents the firing pin from striking a chambered cartridge unless the trigger is pulled, even if the hammer is released due to a faulty sear or the pin is dropped or struck by another object.
And then this:

Quote:
Hammer block
A hammer block is similar to a firing pin block. It is a latch, block or other obstruction built into the action and normally positioned to prevent the hammer contacting the cartridge primer or firing pin when at rest. Similar to the firing pin block, the obstruction to the hammer's travel is removed as a consequence of pulling the trigger. This allows the hammer to contact the primer or firing pin only when the trigger is pulled.
What you are calling a firing pin safety is actually a hammer block.

As for guns going off - Years ago, I've seen tests of Berettas dropped out of low flying helicopters and off tall buildings. They don't come out as undamaged as Glocks do quite often (as far as damage to the entire gun), but they do not go off.
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