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Old 01-07-2012, 03:24 AM   #131
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I believe the Military Trials consisted of this;
exposure to temperatures from -40°F to 140°F, being soaked in salt water, being dropped repeatedly on concrete, and being buried in sand, mud and snow. Additionally,mean rounds before failure) of 35,000 rounds. That number is often touted as the equivalent to five or six times the pistol's service life.

....now what is it again you're talking about?


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LOL!! That's what I was trying to say. Think you proved it best though! I'm not trying to argue with anyone on what is better but I think people just don't understand SIGS and they think there just over priced beauty queens, lol. Like I told him in my previous post, I've owned a glock and I sold it because it didn't perform with all brands of ammo including the cheap stuff plus I hated the way it felt and other wise I never would have bought it but I thought I would try to change the grip by adding a hogue finger groove grip and I even tried a pachmeyer custom grip and it still felt crappy and cheap in my hand. Now my sig feels great and I literally have fired every brand of ammo out there from blazer brass, to Tul-Ammo, to even Wolf and it has fired everything with no problem. The Tul-Ammo even uses steel casings not brass and when I bought those the guy at the counter said you know those have steel casing right, and I was like no I didn't why do you say that and he proceeds to tell me that he just wanted to let me know because alot of people come back and complain that there gun won't shoot them and he asked what type of gun I was using for the .40 S&W and I said oh I gotta SIG I'll be alright because that thing spits out everything I load it with and he grinned and said yep youll be ok, sigs shoot everything. So like I said I guess it's just your own personnel preference, but I'm glad to see some people do agree with me! Thank you sir.
If I remember correctly the only reason that the Beretta won the trial was because it was $25 cheaper then the Sig P226. How true that is I am not sure, but that was word of mouth from several NCO's that I knew who took part in the trials when I was in the service.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:40 AM   #132
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I've done some government contracts and it basically goes something like this:

1). Requirement is found. I.e. we need a service pistol.
2). Guidelines are set...often with market input. I.e. reliable up to 35000 rounds, warranty etc...
3). A request for proposal is put out inviting people to put together a bid package. Often includes a demo product. I.e. 25 guns for golf company 2/1 to play with.
4). Source selection. This is about 2/3s technical and 1/3 financial. So a far superior product is not always a clear winner if it's not affordable. Often you get a mid ranged product that exceeds the standard and is competitively priced.

Sometimes you get the highest quality product because it's competitively priced though. If the sig was clearly technically superior to the beretta, 25 bucks wouldn't have held it back. Not at the quantities the gov bought. More likely they both performed to standard and the beretta had better past performance (as a company) and a lower price tag.

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Old 01-07-2012, 03:57 AM   #133
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I've done some government contracts and it basically goes something like this:

1). Requirement is found. I.e. we need a service pistol.
2). Guidelines are set...often with market input. I.e. reliable up to 35000 rounds, warranty etc...
3). A request for proposal is put out inviting people to put together a bid package. Often includes a demo product. I.e. 25 guns for golf company 2/1 to play with.
4). Source selection. This is about 2/3s technical and 1/3 financial. So a far superior product is not always a clear winner if it's not affordable. Often you get a mid ranged product that exceeds the standard and is competitively priced.

Sometimes you get the highest quality product because it's competitively priced though. If the sig was clearly technically superior to the beretta, 25 bucks wouldn't have held it back. Not at the quantities the gov bought. More likely they both performed to standard and the beretta had better past performance (as a company) and a lower price tag.
I've read something about mags and extras were part of the Beretta package. SIG wanted to charge for them. I've also heard Beretta may have been tipped off on the price to beat. It's all rumor.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:15 AM   #134
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I've read something about mags and extras were part of the Beretta package. SIG wanted to charge for them. I've also heard Beretta may have been tipped off on the price to beat. It's all rumor.
That is sort of along the lines of what they were talking about.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:51 AM   #135
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That is sort of along the lines of what they were talking about.
Yes...and I was just supporting it by what I have heard and read.....is that ok?
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:50 PM   #136
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I have a sig p229 .40 cal, my friend has a glock ? .40 cal, ( neither one has ever had a mud bath nor ever will ) we buy ammo in bulk and split it, so far we have found 2 el cheapo brands of ammo that would fail to feed, enough times that he sold me the rest of his share. My sig has chambered every round I have ever put in it... So when the zombies come and ammo is slim pickin's, I'm going with the gun the eats anything I can get my hands on!
Okay guys, based on this and the other recent posts I get the point that in your opinion the Sig may outperform the Glock. I am particularly leaning on your opinion at this time based on the ability of the Sig to use most ammo,, if what yall have said is true. It brings to mind some issues faced on the range by my friends who own glocks and I was always of the view that the issue was with the ammo and not the gun. Now that you raised the issue with Tul Ammo we had a shipment ordered and a glockowner friend of mine had issues with this ammo in his Glock. I thought it was a failure to feed issue with this ammo, so I thought the issue was with the ammo. In speaking to him he told me his glock prefers the CCI Blazer rounds so in my mind, I just felt that his gun needed some servicing and all would be well. I have been using all bands of ammo in my glocks and have had very few issues with them. My latest was the MFS brand, but another shooter explained to me that the round I was using was a 9mm short used in sub machine guns. I have not verified this one but I took his word for it. It seemed though, that the 9mm short rounds require a harder strike in the primer area to cause the round to fire.

All in all guys, if it can be proven that the Sig will spit out whatever ammo is put into it without any failure issues then I am man enough to concede. This is no ego trip for me. I have used a Sig before and find it tight and reliable. I have also used the glock, and it is a bitch of a pistol, in my opinion.

Would anyone donate a Sig to me to further prove their point?.........
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:05 PM   #137
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Okay guys, based on this and the other recent posts I get the point that in your opinion the Sig may outperform the Glock. I am particularly leaning on your opinion at this time based on the ability of the Sig to use most ammo,, if what yall have said is true. It brings to mind some issues faced on the range by my friends who own glocks and I was always of the view that the issue was with the ammo and not the gun. Now that you raised the issue with Tul Ammo we had a shipment ordered and a glockowner friend of mine had issues with this ammo in his Glock. I thought it was a failure to feed issue with this ammo, so I thought the issue was with the ammo. In speaking to him he told me his glock prefers the CCI Blazer rounds so in my mind, I just felt that his gun needed some servicing and all would be well. I have been using all bands of ammo in my glocks and have had very few issues with them. My latest was the MFS brand, but another shooter explained to me that the round I was using was a 9mm short used in sub machine guns. I have not verified this one but I took his word for it. It seemed though, that the 9mm short rounds require a harder strike in the primer area to cause the round to fire.

All in all guys, if it can be proven that the Sig will spit out whatever ammo is put into it without any failure issues then I am man enough to concede. This is no ego trip for me. I have used a Sig before and find it tight and reliable. I have also used the glock, and it is a bitch of a pistol, in my opinion.

Would anyone donate a Sig to me to further prove their point?.........
You're not going to support your claim that SIG's are not Combat Pistols? You're not going to respond to the 'Military Trials' that SIG passed with flying colors?...oh and those 'Trials' included 'mud' that you find so important...
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:11 PM   #138
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You're not going to support your claim that SIG's are not Combat Pistols? You're not going to respond to the 'Military Trials' that SIG passed with flying colors?...oh and those 'Trials' included 'mud' that you find so important...
Go ahead, Sonic82, rub my head in the mud to see if I can find a Sig there. Lemme google your claim first and get back to you on it. Hope its not an article written by you that will show up.....lol
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:16 PM   #139
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Go ahead, Sonic82, rub my head in the mud to see if I can find a Sig there. Lemme google your claim first and get back to you on it. Hope its not an article written by you that will show up.....lol
Anybody that knows anything about semi-auto pistols knows that the SIG P226 and the Beretta were the only two entries to pass the Military Trials. It's not a "claim" it's a fact and it's common knowlege.

And here's a SIG ad (video) that shows it firing after it's submerged underwater. And it's the Navy Seals choice for a "Combat Pistol"...that's just crazy ain't it? http://www.sigsauerguns.com/product-highlights/mk25-advertisement-video/
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:48 PM   #140
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Anybody that knows anything about semi-auto pistols knows that the SIG P226 and the Beretta were the only two entries to pass the Military Trials. It's not a "claim" it's a fact and it's common knowlege.
The bull**** started here. So you are saying to know about semi auto pistols you must know what passed military trials? Are you for real, or are you taking a piss while typing?
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