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Old 11-24-2012, 03:24 AM   #11
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NFA states that a hand gun is defined as operated with "one hand." Any definable grip is a violation. (ie vertical. angled, potato) An open rail like the conversion has would be fine though.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post
The forward grip and butt stock are restricted under NFA regulation. Both of those things would enhance a pistols capabilities but without them youre just adding a really heavy optic mount.

The sling option for stability is pretty cool though.
Foward grips are not NFA restricted.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyno13

Foward grips are not NFA restricted.
A Pistol with a fore grip has to be classified as an AOW ( any other weapon)
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:52 AM   #14
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ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1 (5320.1), “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2 (5320.2). The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4 (5320.4), which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch.


Thats a direct quote from the link I posted

here it is again

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html
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Last edited by Cattledog; 11-24-2012 at 03:59 AM. Reason: because no one like to click links...fine
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:42 AM   #15
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No. It increases stability. If you attach your pistol to your chest and have tension when you point the gun, your accuracy will improve.
Every point of contact you can add between your gun and you will improve accuracy.
You don't need more barrel.
The gun shoots where its pointed.(depending on the gun)
But how steady can you be with a pistol standing? 25 yards is about the Max I pistol shoot, this I believe will extend that distance.
Put a VFG and a red dot and bam! What $75 of upgrades. Yes I have used $50 red dots on PCCs before. They woked.
I see your point and it is valid, for standing still and plinking at boxes, but I fail to see a defensive purpose. A tactical advantage for police/military perhaps, but civilian... Home defense; I'll stick with my 15" 870 for big bang and in a tight situation I want the maneuverability of a stockless handgun.

Interesting nonetheless and novelties do have their place, I enjoy my 22lr AR greatly. I don't have a Sig, so this wouldn't be for me anyway, just curious. If I could determine a value in it I might become a quick Sig owner.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Interesting nonetheless and novelties do have their place, I enjoy my 22lr AR greatly. I don't have a Sig, so this wouldn't be for me anyway, just curious. If I could determine a value in it I might become a quick Sig owner.
You don't need a Sig. They make platforms for other brands as well. So, if you didn't want to start with a $700 + pistol you do have options.

The price of a fully decked out Sig in this arrangement could possibly get me a Glock and a rifle caliber carbine. Or definitely a pistol and a pump shotgun.

I'm just not real receptive to forcing a pistol into a carbine role. It's why I never saw much appeal in the HK Mk 23. The damned thing is huge, heavy and expensive and still weaker than a rifle cal carbine.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:25 AM   #17
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If your bug out rig involves multiple firearms, (mines 4) this could be a decent addition to carry another firearm. My sling spot is reserved for my AR though. I could see having this if I could holster it while in the sling...Thats just my situation though. I suppose if one were to choose one bug out weapon, a hi cap pistol on a sling may be a good alternative.

For the "one gun bug out", my bet is still on the AR-15 with a 22lr conversion kit. Just my 2 cents
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox

I see your point and it is valid, for standing still and plinking at boxes, but I fail to see a defensive purpose. A tactical advantage for police/military perhaps, but civilian... Home defense; I'll stick with my 15" 870 for big bang and in a tight situation I want the maneuverability of a stockless handgun.

Interesting nonetheless and novelties do have their place, I enjoy my 22lr AR greatly. I don't have a Sig, so this wouldn't be for me anyway, just curious. If I could determine a value in it I might become a quick Sig owner.

Sir you don't need a Sig. Most full frame semi automatics with picatany rail will work.
Glock, Springfield XD, S&W m&p, Sig, H&K and more
Also it does not have a stock.
The LAW Enforcement model has a stock. The civilian model does not. Its meant to be used with a quick detach, 1pt. Bungee sling.

Last edited by gaspump86; 11-24-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:33 AM   #19
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OK, to sum up some of the legal issues here. The stock is legal. The vertical forgrip is not (requires a tax stamp). The "LE" stock makes it an SBR (once again requires a tax stamp).

And, unless your "State" is outside the 50 UNITED STATES, the Federal law trumps, so NO it is not "legal" (the LE version)
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Last edited by robocop10mm; 11-26-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm
OK, to sum up some of the legal issues here. The stock is legal. The vertical forgrip is not (requires a tax stamp). The "LE" stock makes it an SBR (once again requires a tax stamp).

And, unless your "State" is outside the 50 UNITED STATES, the Federal law trumps, so NO it is not "legal".
I have seen these things at academy sports ware I live.
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