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Old 11-05-2009, 11:20 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Gojubrian View Post
You really can't go wrong with the xd's. They are a little thick and blocky, but the right set-up makes the difference in concealing.
What he said...
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:48 PM   #42
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As far as the residue goes, it may well have been the ammo. I've noticed certain brands are dirtier than others. It also appears that in your range session there was a direct correlation between the amount of residue and both the caliber and the barrel length (less powder/farther from your hand = less residue).

If you consider the safe action trigger an external safety, I guess Glocks are still on your list. I love my Glock, and I still prefer Glocks to XDs by a small margin, but one thing I do like about the XD is the grip safety. The regular XD won't be quite as nice as the XDM, but it also won't be as expensive.

Since you are putting 9mm into your mix, think about the cost of practice ammunition.

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Old 11-06-2009, 01:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by utf59 View Post

If you consider the safe action trigger an external safety, I guess Glocks are still on your list. I love my Glock, and I still prefer Glocks to XDs by a small margin, but one thing I do like about the XD is the grip safety. The regular XD won't be quite as nice as the XDM, but it also won't be as expensive.
As we (fellow shooters, gun owners, vendors from the area) like to say in regards to guns w/ little to no physical safety features: "The only safety is the one between your ears". Then again, accidents still do happen.

The XDM is not (or even designed to be) "Nicer" than the standard Service or Tactical versions of the Springfield XD. The main difference is the capacity and size. Some of the XDM grips are also a little more comfortable.

I like Glocks, but I love XDs. The standard service 4" or Tactical 5" either chambered in the 9mm or .40 are plenty of gun one should need. Not saying that the XDMs aren't totally sweet though.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:35 AM   #44
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Don't forget the match grade barrel. Personally, I consider that "nice."

I was looking at an XDM9 for the range and a bedside gun. But the extra expense means that I'll have to hold off for a while. I would like to see how the trigger compares to the regular XD. I understand the reset is a little shorter on the XDM. I wonder if it's also crisper. My main dislike of XDs is that the triggers feel a little "mushy" to me.

diggsbakes, I couldn't agree more about the real safety being between the ears. However, jjp stated that the Sig having no external safeties was a "dealbreaker," and I wanted to address his criteria.

jjp, if you like the XDM, they are more expensive than the regular XDs. In my area (northeast Florida) they run about $100 – $150 more than an XD tactical or service model, and the XD runs about $50 less than a Glock or an XD subcompact.

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Old 11-06-2009, 04:07 AM   #45
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Ok. . . So I really don't count the "trigger" safety as a safety at all. If your finger is on the trigger and you pull, it will shoot. Same as if there was no "trigger" safety. In addition to the grip safety, which is minimal also. (keep in mind that the previous two safety features are designed ONLY to keep the gun from firing as a result of it dropping or being mishandled).

So counting the Glock's trigger safety as a safelty feature at all is a stretch for me. . . but since that's the direction we're going. . . The XD also has two visual safety features not yet mentioned: 1. The loaded chamber indicator on the top of the slide just behind the ejector port. 2. The "hammer cocked" (silver button) that protrudes on the rear of the slide. Both of these visual aides can tell you in a glance if your weapon is ready to be fired (or put away for storage).

As far as the "match grade" barrel. . . I dunno 'bout that. . . My XD is not equipped with one and I still manage to put 24 rounds (2 mags) into a diameter of about a coffee cup at 10 yards. Good enough!

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Old 11-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #46
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The claim about the trigger, just like the XD's trigger and any gun's grip safety, is that it helps make sure shooting it is an intentional act — I call it a "drop safety" — as you mentioned.

As an aside concerning drops, there was an incident in my area about a week ago in which some guy "mishandled or dropped" his legally carried concealed gun. It went off, the round struck a woman in the back, and she died. No details on make or model of the gun, nor on exactly what he did that caused it to hit the floor.
Story: Police: Accidental Shooting Kills Woman - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville

There was a brief follow-up stating that the man had *not* been charged. I would bet he will be facing a lawsuit, however.

As you stated earlier, the best safety is the one between the ears. Personally, I think the next best safety is a good holster setup. I say "setup," because I think you also need something high-quality to attach the holster to. That's usually a belt, but it could be a harness for a shoulder holster, and so on. There are plenty of people who carry safely with no safeties engaged by using a good holster.

A couple of friends of mine do like the "hammer cocked" indicator on their XDs, and one is even a fan of the loaded chamber indicator. He asked me how I would know my Glock had a round in the chamber if I picked it up; I told him because it *always* has a round in the chamber.

Glock also claims a "loaded chamber indicator" which is really just that you can see and feel a difference in the position of the extractor when there's a round in it.

That reminds me of a familiarization class I was in for the government-issue 1911 when I was in the Army. The person giving the class was going over the safety features (the Army's main safety feature was that they rarely gave us ammunition). After the thumb safety and the grip safety, he said that if the pistol is loaded and charged, the slide can be pushed back a little bit, and it won't fire. It was true, but that seemed more of a *defect* to me than a "safety."

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Old 11-06-2009, 08:23 PM   #47
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Please check out my range report on the Ruger P90 .45 in range report section.

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Old 11-06-2009, 09:05 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by jjp View Post
Well, I went to the range today as I mentioned before. It was pretty interesting. I was able to shoot about 7 handguns, including the Glock 21 and Glock 30 that were in the opening post. I shot 3 in .45 caliber and the other 4 in 9mm since it allowed a bigger selection of their rental guns. In case anyone's interested, here are a few of my thoughts:

Glock 30 (.45):
A little small; easiest to conceal; the grip felt a little small in my hands; shooting got a fair amount of residue (or carbon or gun powder, I don't really know what you call it) on me

Glock 21 (.45):

A little large; might be a problem concealing; wide magazine for a single-stack; also got me a little dirty; the grip size felt nice in my hands

Nighthawk Custom GRP (1911, .45):
Good size (a little large), but not too thick; didn't get me as dirty as the previous two; I liked the external safeties; felt great in my hand; might take a little effort for concealing; one of my favorites

Glock 19 (9mm):
The size was a happy medium between the G21 and G30; again, the magazine was a little bulky for a single stack (can someone explain why?); the casing for my 9th round jammed while being ejected; got me a little dirty, but with much finer particles; I think it'll be ok to conceal

Ruger SR9 (9mm):
A little larger than the G19; larger magazine capacity; I liked the external safeties; indicator for loaded chamber; felt good in my hand; I think it'll be ok to conceal, too; little residue; also one of my favorites

Sig P226 (9mm):
Good size; grip felt very nice in my hands; larger magazine capacity; little residue; good size for concealment; no external safeties (DEALBREAKER)!; I inspected a P250 that was for sale and noticed the same lack of safeties, so I guess that's off the list completely

Springfield XDM (9mm):
A little large; large magazine capacity; external safeties; loaded chamber indicator; felt good in my hands; little residue; might take some effort to conceal; I liked this one, too

I think I learned a lot today. I guess the P250 is out. If I could find an affordable 1911 (good quality) that might be my first choice. I liked the Ruger and Springfield as well. The Glocks were nice, but they left a considerable amount of particles on my arms.

Can anyone give me some feedback on their experiences with Rugers (maybe a .45 version) and on a Springfield XD? Also, what about quality 1911 manufacturers?

Thanks to everyone for their advice, I tried to keep as much as I could in mind when firing today.
You could buy 3-4 of any of the other handguns you listed for the price of the Nighthawk. If you could wait and save for it, it is also 3-4 times the gun when compared to the others!
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:42 PM   #49
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I have a Ruger SR9 that I adopted as my carry piece and think it's a great gun. Good shooter, reliable and thinner than the Glocks. It has a reversible back strap too if you have smaller hands. I've never changed it cause I have big paws. My old carry piece was a Beretta Cougar. When it's not practical to carry full size, I strap on my Taurus Ultra-lite .38 with +P's.

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Old 11-07-2009, 01:10 PM   #50
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What is your main purpose for this firearm ccw piece? and are you hung up on having an external safety? You are looking at full size guns which are all gonna be pretty hard to conceal. There are plenty of compacts that would be much easier to conceal but don't have the full size grip comfort.

I have an XDM 9 and I love it, would I carry it? Prob not just due to its size unless it was in the winter and I had on plenty of clothing so it wouldn't print too bad. The 19 rounds is a nice feature but if you need 19 rounds than you prob dont practice at all and are doomed anyway

If you have to have an external safety than I would prob consider the 1911 in a 3" version, S&W makes a line of their M&P's with a safety, or there is also the H&K lineup and many more that I cant think of at the moment.

I would figure out what you plan on doing most of the time, Is this gonna be for range work and practice with the occasional carry or are you gonna carry this all the time and want something easy to conceal. If so you might wanna start to look over the compacts, that will broaden your search options greatly

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