The Myth of Energy Transfer - Page 3
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM
Ive got cats as pets. One weighs 4lbs 1 ounce the other weighs 13.5lbs. Neither is capable of knocking me over when im standing still expecting it. Ive seen the 4lb cat knock my wife over while she was walking by, jumping out and attacking her leg playing.

The difference is unexpected energy transferred to the target. When humans move your expecting things to happen a certain way. Any unexpected interruption to that movement upsets your balance and down you go. Thats why you see soldiers get knocked over by a bullet that hasnt got enough energy to do it. Its why you see a pass reciever get knocked over by accidental unexpected contact catching a pass but can get hit full on by three guys and keep going.

Its not the bullet directly knocking the person over its the extra bit of energy introduced in an unexpected way to that person's delicate balance of motion.

Can a bullet knock someone over?? Yes and No. There was a guy at the turn of the centurythat did a vaudville act catching cannonballs in his stomach. Ive seen people get knocked over by thrown baseballs from children yet batters who get hit by 100mph pitches don't. So yes bullets can do it but not solely by direct energy transfer. I equate it to getting tripped or a shock reaction to an enexpected event.

In a war zone people are expecting to get shot. And programing by tv and movies isyou get shot you fall down. Deer dont weigh as much as people do. Look atslow motion vids of deer getting shot with a 30-06 or rifle larger than a ak47. They dont get knocked over ever. They either jump away long after the bullet hits in relative time. Or they drop dead due to the bullet hitting the off switch. They drop straight down. Deer havent been programmed on what to do when a bullet hits

We have all seen endless videos of ballistics gel blocks getting shot they all weigh less than a person yet they barely move when shot.
+100 Jon That's the kind of info I wanted to post, but I'm not home right now and didn't wanna take the time to type it out on my phone.

As far as the data, or lack thereof in the article, I didn't link the article for it to be the end all be all article. I merely want to shine some light on the subject and open some people's eyes so they'll do some research on the subject and come to an educated decision, and not just do what Bob, Joe or Tom said they should do.

-Fred
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:40 PM   #22
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Cross, I dig your avatar. One of my favorites.

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Old 01-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #23
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Cross, I dig your avatar. One of my favorites.
Say team ramrod!
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:51 PM   #24
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what if you encounter a methed up zombie on pcp that can take two to the chest and keep coming
That is when you need to recognize the limitations of a firearm, and ramp things up a notch. Or two.

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Old 01-22-2012, 01:25 AM   #25
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As an engineer, I like to see real world data more than clever calculations. I also like to see real world data that is close to being in context with the subject at hand. I am concerned about the comparisons between an NFL receiver hitting the ground and a bullet hitting a body. There may be more energy transferred from/to the NFL receiver, but it's spread over a much larger area than the 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter of the bullet impact area.

That being said, it seems pretty clear that the conclusion is still valid. Placement and penetration have more to do with the result than the caliber does. A 22 hitting something critical has more effective impact than a 45 hitting something non-critical. On the other hand, if both rounds hit something critical, the 45 will be at least as effective and probably more so. Either round could miss anything critical and still scare the target into fainting (psychologigal stop).

Seems to me that the best weapon for a person to use is the one they practice with and can use accurately.

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Old 01-22-2012, 02:01 AM   #26
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Don't you just hate it when you have second thoughts about a post? The natural followup to my previous conclusion is that we should practice with and learn to use accurately the largest caliber weapon we can afford. After reading the link to the medical examiners thread, a nice heavy 45 caliber round sounds like the best plan.

My current weapon is a 9mm. I've been thinking about getting a 45 for a little while. Now I'm thinking about it a lot harder!

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Old 01-22-2012, 02:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
That is when you need to recognize the limitations of a firearm, and ramp things up a notch. Or two.
Similar to Chuck Norris' gun in Invasion USA
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:33 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota View Post
Don't you just hate it when you have second thoughts about a post? The natural followup to my previous conclusion is that we should practice with and learn to use accurately the largest caliber weapon we can afford. After reading the link to the medical examiners thread, a nice heavy 45 caliber round sounds like the best plan.

My current weapon is a 9mm. I've been thinking about getting a 45 for a little while. Now I'm thinking about it a lot harder!
1 hit with a .22 is better than 8 misses with a .45. Choice of caliber should not solely be based on the calibers effectiveness. The person(and what they can accurately and reliably shoot) is a factor in the equation.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunus

1 hit with a .22 is better than 8 misses with a .45. Choice of caliber should not solely be based on the calibers effectiveness. The person(and what they can accurately and reliably shoot) is a factor in the equation.
Centerfire ammunition is more reliable than rimfire ammunition.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:32 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by historydoc

Centerfire ammunition is more reliable than rimfire ammunition.
nuh-uh, my brother's cousin's sister's boyfriend's uncle has been a gunsmith and a reloader for over 150 years, and he says rim fire is more reliable. He's been reloading .22 short for 75 years alone.
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