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which is more important........

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Old 09-28-2012, 01:49 AM   #31
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This is the first time I have shared myself being shot at point blank range with a 9mm. I remember it like it was yesterday and will always be part of my conscience as well my subconscience.

I was shot twice in the left side. The first was superficial(sp). It entered below my rib cage and followed under my skin for about 8 inches where it exited and ripped my skin. I can still see the channel. The second shot was to the right,(from the shooters perspective) and lower than the first. It entered about 3 inches below the middle of my rib cage. It was at that time I realized," I'm being shot". It felt like someone trying to push a grapefruit thru my body. That feeling was from the muzzle blast. I did feel the second bullet that lodged in my abdoman a good 10-12 inches deep. The first shot actually hurt worse, I guess it effected more nerves ripping the skin.

I got away from the threat and took stock of my situation. After a few minutes I tought to myself, "I believe I am going to be alright. I stayed on my feet for the majority of the time until the ambulance came. At the trauma center the doctor said they were going to cut me open from under my sternum to several inches past my navel to take my intestines out and inspect them for damage. They stapled me back all but about 4 inches where the deep wound channel was. They do that so your body can drain and not go septic. That open wound took a good month it seems to heal over with scar tissue.

Back to the thread. The 9mm bullet did what it was designed to do. It penetrated a 6'1" 220# (at the time) adult male 10" or so. I was very lucky considering the angle of the bullet didn't take a path into any organ.

Needless to say, my situational awareness is much improved. I never want to play target again. I will share the details of how I got myself into that situation another time. Rest assured I was on the right side of the law but on the wrong end of a gun.

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Old 09-30-2012, 11:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post

I wish Sebbie was here. That gal's mind is out of this world brilliant and I know she would have a formula that would show all the possibilities. Maybe I'll PM her.
Okay, so I reached out to Sebbie, as promised. She is out of the country, in another land that doesn't have the best interwebz connection, and she is working a TON of hours on a special project, but she read this thread, and wrote me back with her thoughts.

Take some brain food. As I have said, Sebbie is probably one of the smartest people I have never met, but do share conversation with. Truth be told, her mind is something special and a conversation with her, at times, has me googling terms and phrases so I can keep up.

Here are her thoughts.

Originally Posted by Sebbie
In doing a very quick speed read on that thread to his question and looking at the answers being submitted I see this.

They are trying unload an Aircraft Carrier with a 2 wheel truck dolly.

Why does everyone think only linear and so 2 dimensional?

There is only one real answer and most of the time its another variable. I don't want to try to do more math on a hotel computer but here is the concept as I see it.

Items with this kind of energy metric need to be addressed in dimensionality. Time, space, mass, acceleration & deceleration. It's Newtons laws and more.

Time. How much time in the energy dwell period? Basically this is the time period that energy is being released and absorbed.

Volume. How much volume will be affected? Round bubble? Long bubble? Cylindrical bubble? ect. The total mass of that volume?

Density. These variables need to include material type, temperature, elasticity, cohesion factor, adhesion factor, & modulus of elasticity of the structural matter, trans-conductance of energy displacement and more.

Ballistic coefficient, sectional density, projectile structural density and its modulus of elasticity. The shooters kind of know this one but forget it also takes energy to deform that bullet.

Rotation velocity and travel path also affect the energy dwell factor. Angler deflection takes energy and also affects that dwell factor.

Target anatomy and all of those variables expound the mathematics.

The Target, is it, s/he big, small, short, skinny, fat, in shape, out of shape, 4 legs or 2? On and on. What structures and organs? What is the adrenalin levels and so much more!

So the short explanation of my opinion is mathematically you can attack this problem for quite some time.

The start would be in using a Determinate formula grid (matrix mathematics) that if you remember is a basic Algebra function for solving multiple formulas with multiple variables.


You also need a calculus grid too because of the time & travel factors.
As i said, she could add some thoughts to this discussion and she would indeed have some math that could back up what she was talking about.

So there are a ton of factors, variables, conditions and data that would need to be able to produce a quantifiable, definitive answer.

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Old 10-01-2012, 12:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by GunRunner View Post
I understand shot placement is key, but that taken out of the equation, which is more important to have, a fast and light or slower and heavier? If both round were to strike similar target at the same area which round would do more damage?
get the best of both, fast AND heavy.
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