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**Threetango** · 09-27-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunRunner

Thats what the 5.56 was designed to do, a wounded enemy that will or may eventually die that needs to be carried off as he screams in agony is more detrimental to the enemy than a quickly killed one.

Don't agree with your theory.
In 3 wars and if you killed one you moved on to the next one. Wounded enemy can still shoot you dead.
I've seen an NVA run all the way thru our perimeter after being shot several times.

**JTJ** · 09-27-2012, 10:17 PM

There is a website call box o truth. http://www.theboxotruth.com/ They did some testing on military rounds (5.56x45 and 7.62x51) to see what they would do. The 7.62 out performed the 5.56 of course but neither round made it through the barriers. They then fired a 45-70 515 grain at about 1500 fps. It went completely through the test barriers. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

**robocop10mm** · 09-27-2012, 10:20 PM

The age old argument of Heavy/slow vs light/fast.

Handguns are notoriouosly poor manstoppers. To stop a DETERMINED opponent, one must stop the central nervous system from sending messages to the muscles that do the work. One can "pull the plug" by putting a bullet through the cental processing unit (the brain). One can disconnect the CPU from the muscles by putting a bullet through the spinal cord in the cervical or high thoracic area. OR, one can deprive ethe CPU of energy by dropping blood pressure/flow and starve the brain of oxygen.

The first two unfortunately are highly likely to cause death, but tend to be effective very quickly. The third one unfortunately tends to cause death, just a bit more slowly as lack of blood flow is lethal to organs.

A less determined adversary MAY be stopped by pain or fear. A shot to the pinky toe with a .22 may cause enough pain for the attacker to rethink his position. The sound of a shotgun racking or sight of a gun pointed at him MAY cause him to rethink his position.

I, for one, am unwilling to risk my life or the lives of other innocents by believing in the fairy tale of fear and pain. The sad reality is, pointing a gun at someone w/o the capability to pull the trigger and cease their existance is very likely to cease YOUR existance. This does NOT mean that one must always shoot an adversary and kill him. This does mean that one must be PREPARED to shoot an adversary AND be capable of killing him IF NECESSARY!

Back to the original question. The FBI has studied the problem extensively. They determined to stop the adversary, one must fire a bullet capable of consistently penetrating about 12-13". That gives the bullet the ability to actually reach those vital components from any angle. A light fast bullet will be likely to expend energy too quickly and not penetrate sufficiently. The momentum of a slow/heavy bullet generally allows it to penetrate more deeply. A 115-125 gr bullet @ 1300-1500 fps MAY not be sufficient. A 230 gr bullet that leaves the barrel at 850 fps but strikes the target at 650 fps because of an intermediate barrier May not be sufficient.

Personally, I like heavy and fast. 180 gr bullet at 1300 fps is the cat's meow