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Old 08-30-2010, 11:02 AM   #11
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One suggestion is to go to a shooting range and observe.
You will find that normally there is one individual who is:
Sure of themselves and not have a cocky attitude, and
He is an accurate shot, and
If you ask him/her a couple of questions, you will get straight answers, and
(without your asking) he/she may offer to let you shoot a couple of rounds.

I have no problem giving an impromptu lesson to someone on the range or let them shoot shoot a couple of rounds through my guns. Especially if I think they are new to firearms.

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Old 08-31-2010, 12:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
One suggestion is to go to a shooting range and observe.
You will find that normally there is one individual who is:
Sure of themselves and not have a cocky attitude, and
He is an accurate shot, and
If you ask him/her a couple of questions, you will get straight answers, and
(without your asking) he/she may offer to let you shoot a couple of rounds.

I have no problem giving an impromptu lesson to someone on the range or let them shoot shoot a couple of rounds through my guns. Especially if I think they are new to firearms.
I'm doing that now. The little range where I go usually has a couple of folks either shooting pistols (kinda rare), practicing for hunting season, or training for competition events. Good suggestions all. Sometimes, the shooter there wants to sell one of his, so that's always a factor.
Thanks.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
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...Don't know a lot about stopping power of the 9mm compared to the .380, the .38 sp, or the .40, but I do know very good self defense rounds are readily available for all of them...
Br
The .38 Special and the 9mm are about equal. A whole bunch of police and Federal agencies followed the US Military into 9mm land and learned fairly quickly things had not improved over the .38 Special. After a bunch of FBI Agents were shot to pieces in Miami the FBI led the push to do something about it and working with S&W 'developed' the .40 S&W (aka 10mm short). Everyone else then followed the FBI into this new territory. The concept is the short length of the cartridge allows .40 caliber pistols to be made of 9mm frames, and meanwhile the larger diameter (5 hundredths of an inch) brings the round closer to the stopping power of a .45, but without the kick. Amazingly, it does seem to be a slight improvement over both the standard .38 Specials and the 9mms.

The .380 is the inferior stopping power cartridge. More potent than a .32 or a .25, it still lacks lots of energy compared to the .38 Special and the 9mm. The .380 advantages are, a smaller cartridge with less gunpowder can equal a much smaller, easier to make and often easier to hide gun. The .380 will kill, just not as quickly and not nearly as reliably. It sometimes takes 2 or 4 .380 bullets to do what one .38 Special or 9mm can do, and it sometimes takes 2 or 3 .38 Special/9mm bullets to do what one .45 bullet can do. Maybe 1.5 .40 caliber bullets to do what one .45 can do. Some call that a good compromise.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:59 AM   #14
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Thanks, Superc, for the info on the characteristics and differences of the ammunition I listed. I've found a shop that I intend to go to this week, and I think I will try several weapons before I plunge - but hopefully b next weekend, I'll have made some kind of decision. But right now, I am leaning toward a 9mm, maybe a CZ-P07 or something in that neighborhood. Still, that Beretta .40 S&W is very sweet....

Lots to consider.

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Old 09-01-2010, 02:03 AM   #15
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And I know the .40 S&W is popular to many right now, but I have little experience with it. I shoot 9mm and .45acp. Many people say that the snappier recoil of the .40 over .45 makes the .40 a bit harder to shoot (especially follow-up shots). So, I say, why not just stick with 9mm (for the smaller-size polymer pistols available for it) and .45acp (especially something with a steel frame like the 1911)?

To me, the .40 S&W (and the short-lived 10mm) are an answer to a question that didn't need to be asked. Just my HO.

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Old 09-01-2010, 02:13 AM   #16
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Yeah, lots of folks love the .40 SW. And the only one i've shot is the PX4, but it does not kick too much - very stable, very good groupings - and I am not a handgun shooter (yet). I did better with that than the Bersa Thunder 380 initially, then I got the hang of the Bersa and it performed very well also. But I never did warm up to the LCP for some reason - maybe grip size or something. But all in all, I think I agree about the 9mm (at least for now...

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Old 09-01-2010, 02:18 AM   #17
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I have a Kahr PM9 and love it. 9mm has really good stopping power, and even the .45acp round isn't a slam dunk as better than the 9mm. Consider it much more strongly than the .380.

Check out this article:

9mm vs. .45

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Old 09-01-2010, 02:21 AM   #18
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The orginal Norma 10mm round was fun to shoot. Not at all like the watered down 10mm we have today.

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Old 09-01-2010, 03:59 AM   #19
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I'm a huge 9mm supporter, in fact out of the large shooting range group I'm in, I'm the only guy that owns a 9mm! (oddly)

So yeah, 9mm is an excellent choice. Don't listen to the "9mm doesn't have enough stopping power" arguments. It has plenty of stopping power with the right hollowpoint.

As for the PX4. I've held one, never fired one, but my friend owns one, he claims if not lubed properly the rotating barrel sticks and the gun will jam.

Never seen it happen, but that's something he pointed out to me when I was thinking about getting one. Beretta makes excellent handguns though, I own a M92FS.

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Old 09-03-2010, 12:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superc View Post
The .38 Special and the 9mm are about equal. A whole bunch of police and Federal agencies followed the US Military into 9mm land and learned fairly quickly things had not improved over the .38 Special. After a bunch of FBI Agents were shot to pieces in Miami the FBI led the push to do something about it and working with S&W 'developed' the .40 S&W (aka 10mm short). Everyone else then followed the FBI into this new territory. The concept is the short length of the cartridge allows .40 caliber pistols to be made of 9mm frames, and meanwhile the larger diameter (5 hundredths of an inch) brings the round closer to the stopping power of a .45, but without the kick. Amazingly, it does seem to be a slight improvement over both the standard .38 Specials and the 9mms.

The .380 is the inferior stopping power cartridge. More potent than a .32 or a .25, it still lacks lots of energy compared to the .38 Special and the 9mm. The .380 advantages are, a smaller cartridge with less gunpowder can equal a much smaller, easier to make and often easier to hide gun. The .380 will kill, just not as quickly and not nearly as reliably. It sometimes takes 2 or 4 .380 bullets to do what one .38 Special or 9mm can do, and it sometimes takes 2 or 3 .38 Special/9mm bullets to do what one .45 bullet can do. Maybe 1.5 .40 caliber bullets to do what one .45 can do. Some call that a good compromise.
I don't know how you figure that it takes 2 or 3 9mm bullets to do what one .45 will do. All common semi-auto pistol calibers pretty much suck at killing quickly (you die from blood loss more than anything). When you are trying to make someone stop with low velocity ammunition (pistol ammo) you pretty much want to put the bullets where it will make them bleed very quickly (heart) or shut them down entirely (brain). If the bullets hit those locations it won't matter if it was a .380 or a .45. However... if your weapon has a higher magazine capacity (smaller bullets) it gives you more chances to put rounds in those important spots. People have survived several shots of just about every pistol-round out there. I opt for putting several of whatever I have where it counts. I can do that better with more rounds.

The only requirement I have for defensive ammunition is penetration. If I shoot you and your sternum or ribs prevents one of my bullets from hitting your heart... I feel that I have picked the wrong ammunition.

Pistols to consider are:
PX4 Storm 9mm
FNX-9
XD(M)-9 3.8" Barrel
Ruger SR9C
Glock 19

If you can't find a place to shoot them. Find a place to at least pick them up and hold them.
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