Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Semi-Auto Handguns > I hate to bother you all with this, but here is my "which gun for a n00b" thread.

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Old 01-02-2009, 06:30 PM   #11
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I am pretty sure most of the guys on this board are going to be in agreement on what I am about to tell you.

The purpose of a firearm is NOT to be pulled out and scare someone off. When it comes time to pull a firearm, hoping the sight of your weapon to stop a violent act, is not going to be the reason.

When it comes time to draw your weapon, it is time to be prepared to fire your weapon. Period. If you are going to fire your weapon, you need to have a round that will end the threat. Rounds are target is what matters - not the sight of your shiny chrome plated death magnum.

Nobody on here wants to pull their weapon and take a life - but several of us here are prepared to do so IF the need ever arises.

JD
True. The pistol shouldn't even considered unless it is to protect someone's life, limb or eyesight for an attacker. You need to be absolutely committed to killing an individual before you draw.

Using a firearm to "scare" someone is stupid and dangerous. At close ranges, it is very easy to strip a pistol from someone who hasn't been trained in weapons retention. Once that pistol is stripped from you, you can almost guarantee that you're going to get shot by it. Also, you run the very likely risk that everyone else involved in the fray will be shot also.

Here's a fun scenario to wrap your head around: You and your girlfriend are on a double date with a buddy and his woman. On your way out of the restaurant/movie theater/bar, a random individual approaches your buddy's girl and starts hitting on her. Doing the right thing, you try to avoid confrontation and tell the guy to leave her alone and start off on your way.

He becomes more aggressive and grabs your buddy's girl by the arm and starts talking about how she is going back to his place with him.

This would be the point that you'd decide that you're going to scare this guy. You draw and brandish your piece. He throws your buddy's girl to the ground and in one quick and takes your pistol from you, because you weren't committed to using it. In the same movement used to strip you of the pistol, he drops 2 bullets into your chest and, because your buddy lunged for him when he grabbed your pistol, your buddy takes 3 to the gut.

This causes the girls to begin screaming, so one gets a bullet to the head and the other gets hit in the thigh, severing her femoral artery.

All 4 of you are now dead. This exact same scenario happened in the city I live in about a month and a half ago. This is also the reason to use a proven man stopper round like a heavy .45 ACP hollow point. Had you waited until the proper time to shoot, the attacker is likely going to be pretty pumped up. A .22 LR is going to do nothing to stop him. You'd be very lucky in a .380 would even.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:33 PM   #12
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Deadly force that is not intended to be deadly is a bad idea. If you are not willing to KILL the attacker, you should not shoot him/her. Deadly force is a last option that is intended to SAVE a life (yours). "Wounding" intentionally will negate the life or death rationale for shooting in the first place.

Shoot center of available mass and repeat until the threat is no longer a threat. Unfortunatey, the end result is frequently death of the attacker. There is not reliable way to stop/incapacitate a determined attacker with out also causing death.

If you are unwilling to take a life, do not own/carry/possess/display a firearm for self defense. Hesitation can and will result in your own death.

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Old 01-02-2009, 06:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Deadly force that is not intended to be deadly is a bad idea. If you are not willing to KILL the attacker, you should not shoot him/her. Deadly force is a last option that is intended to SAVE a life (yours). "Wounding" intentionally will negate the life or death rationale for shooting in the first place.

Shoot center of available mass and repeat until the threat is no longer a threat. Unfortunatey, the end result is frequently death of the attacker. There is not reliable way to stop/incapacitate a determined attacker with out also causing death.

If you are unwilling to take a life, do not own/carry/possess/display a firearm for self defense. Hesitation can and will result in your own death.
It's incredible how many people just don't get this little nugget of information. It's astounding how many people think that just because they're the one holding the gun, that they're the one in charge of the world at that moment. It's dumbfounding how many people fail to realize that their own gun can kill them.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:13 PM   #14
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Here's what I always start off my CQC training with when I teach the troops in my unit.

"The gun, in it's many shapes and sizes is designed to do one thing, and one thing only. It is designed to kill. It is designed to kill a living thing by delivering a piece of steel at a high velocity into the vital parts of that living thing, rendering it into a dead thing. If you cannot deal with the fact that guns are made to take life, you should not be holding a firearm at this time."

If you decide to draw your weapon, you had better follow through with it. Trying to display a "show of force" by just pulling the weapon out is dangerous to you and everyone around you.

Fighting for life is not meant to be fair. You do not have to give the threat a warning. You do not have to "square-off" with the threat for the sake of honor. If the threat is endangering your life or others, all you need to do is pull your weapon (quickly), put your sight picture on center-of-mass, and squeeze the trigger until the threat is gone (i.e. one the ground either screaming and immobile or dead).

That person is trying to take away your right to go home to your family at the end of the day. You can either let the threat win because you decided not to protect what is rightfully yours, or you can have the mindset of "You WILL NOT take my life, I WILL take yours!"

Here's a clip of Marines in training. This clip gives a good idea of what attitude you should take when it comes to defending your life and your loved ones.

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Old 01-02-2009, 10:29 PM   #15
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ive seen clips of leo getting disarmed and shot by their own gun. that goes to show that just because you have the gun you are not incharge, no matter what degree of training you have under your belt

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Old 01-02-2009, 11:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by sgtdeath66 View Post
ive seen clips of leo getting disarmed and shot by their own gun. that goes to show that just because you have the gun you are not incharge, no matter what degree of training you have under your belt
Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:02 AM   #17
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I don`t know the prices in the US, but here in good old germany, you can get a CZ75 or CZ85 im 9mm Luger for about that budget you have.

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2059105
(Beware, german websight)



The CZ75 is a very reliable pistol, that will also last a long time.
Buy a 22 conversion kit (called Kadet on the CZ75) and if I may quote, you will have best of both worlds).

The CZ75 is pretty accurate and very reliable pistol, that feeln fine wusing almost any brand of ammo.
The CZ75 accually is one of the most copied pistols on the market and has been around since 1975/1976 and was continously made better.

I bought mine from a gunsmith for € 80 plus € 20 for an extra mag, that got a load of about 8 CZ75 pre B`s in from a big security company. These have only been laying in the companies safe for I think 15 years and have hardly been shot at the range.
Since it is the tropical versin, the finish is not blued but like painted, that made it moisture resistand for use in areas whith high humidity (jungle). The paint has chipped off, but the function is great and the feel is very nice.
The paint chipping off is from carrying them in the holsters.



Ken

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Old 01-03-2009, 06:29 AM   #18
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Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
that reminds me of a time, the only time ive had to draw my gun for protection.i lived out in the country with no houses close for atleast 200 yrd in every direction, i was going outside to the car to get something and heard a noise right behind me, you know one of those sounds that sends chills down you spine that tells you "something aint right" kinda sounds, well before i knew it i was turned around with my glock drawn in 1/4 of a second and there it was!! a big azz dog, did i shoot, no it ended up bein a freindly stray. it was my test of nerves as it couldve been shot if i wouldntve waited that half sec. the point of this story is you dont take the shot unless you have to. its all about taking in allyour surroundings and realizing your threat. its hard to tell if you should shoot first then ask ?'s or wait till its too late
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:51 PM   #19
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There's been plenty of instances where firearms being produced HAVE defused/desclated the situation, BUT if you're not totally comitted to using deadly force if NEEDED, stick with a Taser or pepper spray.

Another thing-you'll NEVER hear of somebody bragging they took a life-even in self defense, you WILL hear of them being happy to have survived the situation, or of SAVING lives stemming from it. Sadly to say, anyone who has ever survived a REAL firefight-wether civilian, law enforcment, or military, comes out of it permanently changed-even IF it was totally justified. It WILL dominate your thoughts and dreams for some time afterwards-even permanent to some degree! I'm POSITIVE some members will back me up on that.

Also, you WILL be questioned later as to the tiniest details as to wether it was justified or not. ANY act that was uneccesary could likely land YOU behind bars. Everything pertaining to the occurence, and a LOT that don't, will be gone over with an fine tooth comb.

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Old 01-03-2009, 04:01 PM   #20
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+1 on that post.

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