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Old 10-25-2008, 02:28 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by KellyTTE View Post
Unlike your mentioned example, I put my opinions out there in the light of day. No masks, no hidden agendas. I accept no advertising and most of the gear I get gets returned or donated.
Relevance? I haven't accepted anything that I have spoken about either. But I refuse to believe that if I don't buy your "Approved Kit", I am going to die in a horrible moment of "buyers remorse". I know how to operate my weapons. I also inspect my weapons for wear and tear. If something is going to suddenly "go wrong" it would probably show me signs of it much earlier that catastrophic failure and now the Space Zombies are eating my brain.


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You might be surprised what soldiers will buy for them selves. Yes there are 350.00 cases (UKi and higher end Hardiggs) but there are also entry level Hardigg cases (sub 150.00 online) as well as lots of good solid sub 50.00 gear, belts, gloves, etc, etc.
Actually no I wouldn't, we deal with soldiers all the time. However I also know what a soldier makes, especially one with a family and more mouths to feed than just his own. Just like the members of the forum here.


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I'll meet you half-way. PM me and so long as it doesn't violate my site internal policies regarding neutrality or pose a conflict of interest, we'll make it public.
Done.
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:47 AM   #12
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KellyTTE:
The SR9 is actually a fine firearm in my opinion. Good accuracy, and can throw those 9mm pills out there (accurately) for quite a distance. Good ergonomics, and the 17+1 capacity is an outstanding feature. I don't think you can get better deal for around 450 dollars or less. I can't see how purchasing an MP9 is a good decision to me. Why waste your hard earned money on something that doesn't really offer anything different than the other products on the market? I think it would be smarter to take the 650-750 dollars or so that you would spend on a MP9, and buy an SR9, some extra magazines, maybe a nice tactical light, and some ammo/cleaning kits, or any other shooting related things you may want or need.

Since my opinion is different than yours, does that mean I'm uninformed?
I see plenty of new M&P 9mm and Glock 17s all over gunbroker within 40.00 of comparable SR9s. And considering that the SR9 is a new weapon, I'd say trusting your life to an mostly unvetted weapon that has already had one serious recall would fit into the category of uninformed decision.

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Caliber discussions are dumb, but basically calling someone stupid for making their own choice on a firearm for their own reasons is not?
Rejecting a weapon, based on looks, despite information, widely available regarding the second weapons overall performance, quality, reliability and servicability (information widely available) is dumb, sorry.

Heck don't believe me about XDs, poll any cutting edge pistol instructor, Larry Vickers, James Yeager, LMS Defense, Magpul Dynamics, etc, and you'll notice a few things. None of the instructors run XDs and NONE of them have much nice to say about them. Here's a good drill that no-go's the XD:

Weak-hand only, do a reload with the XD covered in baby oil (to simulate a bloody gun). I can execute some ugly-ass one handed reloads with a lot of guns. That list does not include any flavor of XD because of the grip safety slidelock.

FAIL

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Professional firearms reviewers/instructors do not talk down to other people because that person's reasoning may differ from the reviewer/instructor. Be a professional, and use that as an opportunity to maybe bestow some knowledge and mentorship on the forum.
At what point did I waive my right to laugh at a dumbass comment because I was a writer? What? Sometimes mentoring means looking at someone in front of everyone and saying: 'Dude, you are fncked up and in front'. I've been there, I've heard it. Sucks. You correct and move on.

You think what you think, I think what I think. Let it go. If iVEC wants to defend himself, let him do it.

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Old 10-25-2008, 03:17 AM   #13
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What about the number of reported kB!s (KA-BOOMS) that are circulating out there? You are making a point about how an XD won't reload while covered in baby oil, when there are reports of Glocks going BOOM in people's hands.

The SR9 is not a new design. It's new to Ruger, but there's nothing new in regards to it's striker fired design. Suggested MSRP on a MP9 runs between 650-750 dollars. Those are some good deals on that MP9, if you are finding it close to the price of an SR9.

The SR9 being recalled has no bearing on the argument. The recall was because of a drop safety problem which has been fixed.

This exerpt was taken from http://www.firearmsid.com/Recalls/FA_Recalls%203.htm

Quote:
GLOCK
MODEL 19,
9MM LUGER CALIBER, PISTOL

WARNING: This make and model pistol may have the potential for an UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE of a cartridge with the action open.
The Glock, model 19 pistol slide has a bottom protrusion, whose function is to push cartridges from the top of the magazine into the chamber . When the pistol is jammed in a double feed situation, the slide protrusion can come in contact with the primer of the jammed cartridge and cause UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE while the action is open.
Glock, Inc.
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082
(770) 432-1202

Source:
  • AFTE Journal, July 1993; Volume 25, Number 3:206-208

GLOCK
MODEL 19,
9MM LUGER CALIBER, PISTOL

WITH SERIAL NUMBER PREFIXS AN,BP,BR, BV, BW, BX, DL, DM, DN, DP, DR, DS, DT, DV, DW, DX, DY, & DZ.
WARNING: These pistol may have the potential of the action to malfunction as followings:
  1. The slide locking back on a full magazine.
  2. Failure to lock into battery because the barrel lug drags on the slide lock.
  3. The magazine follower tips or sticks in the magazine tube.
Glock, Inc.
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082
(770) 432-1202

Source:
  • AFTE Journal, April 1990; Volume 22, Number 2:227
GLOCK
SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS MANUFACTURED BETWEEN SEPTEMBER 2001 AND MAY 2002 WITH SERIAL NUMBERS STARTING WITH “E”, “GSSF” OR “USA” REGARDLESS OF CALIBER
WARNING: Glock pistols manufactured between September 2001 and May 2002 with serial numbers starting with “E”, “GSSF” or “USA” regardless of caliber have experienced FRAME RAIL FAILURES.

The specific issue is the potential of breaking a rear frame rail. Glock notes that under most conditions the pistol will continue to function with three rails.

Glock, Inc. does not officially call this a recall, but an upgrade at no charge. The complete firearm should be returned to Glock for a replacement frames that will have the original serial number with a “1” prefix added to it.

If you believe you have a pistol affected by this notice contact Glock at (866) 225-4098.


Source:
www.glocktalk.com February 17, 2002
www.GSSFonline.com


GLOCK
MODEL 26
9MM CALIBER, SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL,
SERIAL NUMBER PREFIX DGU, DHR & DKU

MODEL 27
40 S&W CALIBER SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL
SERIAL NUMBER PREFIX DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW, & DKX

Recall: Mr. Don Bulver, warrant department, of Glock, Inc. indicated the recoil springs produced before September 1999 may shear off on some of these pistols due to over hardness of the support tube.
Replacement springs will be distinguished by a vertical mark from the center on the front polymer portion of outer ring of the guide rod assembly which will appear to be a mold line.
Glock
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082
(770) 432-1202

Source:
  • Company Notice, February 21, 2000
Looks like the Glock brand which you use has also had some recall experiences. You are calling my opinion uninformed because the SR9 had a recall, when the Glock pistols you use, have had not just one recall, but 4 total on this webpage alone, and one of those recalls involves the possibility of an unintentional discharge!

Heck, my Hi-Point C9 and JCP .45 have a better service record in the recall area then your Glocks, and they are about 400 dollars less in price to purchase.

Seems like your decisions are pretty uninformed also.....bummer.....

FAIL!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: I checked the same recall site again, and I counted right around 58 recalls/warnings under Smith and Wesson versus 12 recalls/warnings under Ruger. I'll stick with the Ruger SR9 versus the Smith and Wesson MP9.
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Old 10-25-2008, 03:28 AM   #14
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I'm saying that the SR9 has only been on the Market for 9 months. I was at SHOT 08 and talked to them at length about it. The Glock has been in service, what, 20+ years?

3 entries for Glock. 13 for Ruger.

Statistically speaking, your using a logical fallacy to try and make your argument. Sorry.

And if you carry a Hi-Point of ANY sort for self defense, you have my sincerest condolences. Anyhow, like I said, you think what you think. I'll think what I think. Have a nice day.

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Old 10-25-2008, 03:48 AM   #15
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KellyTTE:

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3 entries for Glock. 13 for Ruger.
3 entries for Glock pistols. 0 entries for Springfield pistols.

XD wins.

KellyTTE:
Quote:
And if you carry a Hi-Point of ANY sort for self defense, you have my sincerest condolences.
Thanks, but I don't need any condolences. My C9 shot better than an HK P7 the other day. I'm not worried the least bit in regards to my utility gun.

KellyTTE:
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Have a nice day.
Thanks. You have a nice day too. Best of luck in your future reviews on your website.
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Old 10-25-2008, 09:13 AM   #16
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Interesting discussion you kids got going here with lots of good and bad advice/opinions based on the real world as was the discussion that originated the whole thing .

First lets start with subject of the original thread .

Quote:
I am really stuck on a 9mm XD after shooting my buddies, but I haven't shot a Glock 19 yet. I went to a local gun shop here and fell in love with the way the Glock 19's feel and size. I'm still a gun noob, so does anyone have some input they want to give me?
We have someone who is an admitted noob who appears to have fired one handgun and handled one other one and is going gaga over which one to buy .

With so many here who have been shooting perhaps longer than the kid has been alive and so many claiming to be instructors did anyone think to ask him why he is limiting his choice to just these two weapons with so little experience ? What's his main purpose for the gun ?

All of the plastic breeds as well as the alloy frames are all designed for comfortable all day carry , this guy obviously hasn't the experience for that .

Did anyone think to mention to him that autos come with the need for spare magazines at the average cost of nearly $50 a pop . I don't know about you folks but there isn't a single auto pistol or rifle that I own and don't have a minimum of 4 spare magazines for .

KellyTTE you should be ashamed to consider yourself worthy of "training anyone if you actually believe that this

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First, people try and choose 'fighting/shtf/whatever' weapons based on looks, feel, all sorts of crap, none of which is anything more than a training/mindset issue. Get over it.
is a valid position to have.

Why does someone have to "Get over it" with dozens of options on the market of fine fighting pistols ? O BTW the "Feel" issue is indeed a huge one if a gun feels uncomfortable in ones hand few will shoot such a gun well .

You have some valid points such as

Quote:
The reality is that most people are sheep who are totally unprepared for when the wolf comes knocking. But its easier to be blissfully ignorant than to train hard.
But the base problem isn't really a lack of training as it is lack of determined mindset .

Fact of the matter is not only the majority but the vast majority of gun owners that have them strictly for home defense act like they are a Magic talisman like a Cross or a clove of garlic they'll just wave around in front of a Hollywood Vampire and make them run away . It may work but if one is shaking like a Barney Fife does and a criminal takes notice odds are you wont have that gun for long .

Too many times on internet forums people get into whizzing contests over "Training" , but what should people be training for ?

None of us will ever find ourselves in either a home or street engagement that will require us to fire a hundred + rounds now will we ? How many even have enough rounds sitting at home in magazines to even entertain such nonsense ? So honestly how valid is an argument against a gun that jams after several hundred rounds fired while at a "Training" school , or even a hundred or 50 for that matter ?

Then you talk about gear what gear ? Hell in most home defense shootings in the middle of the night the closest thing to "Gear" most men will be wearing is their underware at 3am .

Most training that the average citizen really needs are simple things that have nothing to do with the gun , Like paying attention and seeing that gang of punks wandering around in the parking lot at 9pm and going to a different store for their milk or late night snack . Taking their cell phone out of their ear , locking the car , and home front door .

Want to train someone ? Train them to point shoot in a darkened room , train them to engage two or three targets effectively and quickly . Hell train them to field strip the gun once a month and give it a shot of BreakFree on the slide rails .

Even better get them to understand that regardless of how many schools they have been to none of it means Jack if all they do is go home and drop the gun in a safe or drawer and think that five years from now their training is going to do them any good if they haven't touched it .

If you guys want to get excited about guns get excited about the ones that have a record of catastrophic failures that render them completely inoperable like apparently the Glock does have .

Gaston Glock himself said that he designed the thing because cops and soldiers carry them and never use them far more often than they fire them and while yes most firefights are limited engagements I would rather have a gun in my hand the designer was thinking "How can I make this a better fighting gun" rather than "Gee lets make sure it isn't so heavy people have to wear a belt to keep their pants up carrying it" and all of the plastic designs follow suit .

Plastic is for your Kitchen Trashcan , Steel is for a fighting gun buy a HighPower , CZ , S&W or a grand old 1911 made of metal and a belt to hold your pants up , everything else belongs in Kmarts Toy section next to the Super Soakers .
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Old 10-25-2008, 10:13 AM   #17
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"Sometimes best to be thought a fool, than to open yer yap and remove all doubt."

I don't know who coined this phrase, but it certainly applies to one poster in this thread.

Quote:
First, people try and choose 'fighting/shtf/whatever' weapons based on looks, feel, all sorts of crap, none of which is anything more than a training/mindset issue. Get over it.
Now there's a statement that will cause intelligent folks to seek training elsewhere. Sounds like everyone should wear the same shoes, because comfort is universal, right?

uuuhhh, pssst........ mindset is best achieved with a weapon that fits the shooter..... check yer instructors manual on page one.
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
"Sometimes best to be thought a fool, than to open yer yap and remove all doubt."
It's one of these people...

: Abraham Lincoln, George Eliot, Groucho Marx, Albert Einstein, and a mysterious figure named Silvan Engel.

No one really knows for sure, but it's and excellent saying... one of my favorites.
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:53 PM   #19
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There is some serious verbal-volley going on here. Sort of a "my thing is better than your thing" mentallity. I tried 5 Glocks... don't like em'. I tried XD's and their OK, didn't buy one though. I tried S&W M&P's they're OK, I bought one. I tried CZ75B, I like it I bought it. I tried CZ97, I like it I bought it. I tried CZ83, I like it too and bought it. I tried a Ruger P345, I like it and bought for my polymer frame 45. I tried a S&W 410S w/laser I liked it, I bought it. If I try another Glock and happen to like it, I'll buy one... My point being, I don't give a flip sh!t what anyone else thinks about these weapons. If I like it, I BUY IT.

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Old 10-25-2008, 03:21 PM   #20
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I'm no gun expert, I'm not an instructor, LEO, super commando type or anything like that. I shoot because I enjoy it and because I believe in being prepared. So this is just an amateur's opinion.

At least for me, finding a gun aesthetically pleasing is very important. If I really like a gun, I shoot it more often and get better results quicker. A 4" .357 wheelgun might not be most people's idea of a perfect gun, but I like my S&W 686 so much and shoot it so often that I've become a lot more accurate with it than with any semiauto I've tried (in good defensive calibers).

So should I get a Glock? It probably is a better weapon, but there's a subjective part to the human/gun equation that needs to be taken into account. Besides the gun's objective qualities (ammo capacity, reliability, price, etc.) one has to consider the shooter's preferences as well.

I think any handgun is a compromise and every shooter has to decide which features he wants in a gun and which ones he's willing to trade to make it fit his purpose better.

There are tons of good guns. Why should I settle for one that just works well when I can find one that works well and pleases my eyes too? Is my CZ75 better than a Glock 17? It's better for ME, since I really like it and enjoy shooting it often. Even if it was a bit mechanically inferior to a Glock the extra practice would make up for it.

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