Difference Between Glocks and Sigmas
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:13 PM   #1
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Default Difference Between Glocks and Sigmas

Ok, I have a question. I have looked over the internals of both the Glock and S&W Sigma pistols. Since they are pretty much the same internally, and in function (i.e. slide stop operation, trigger safety, take-down, etc...), why are people dogging on the Sigma so much?

Keep in mind that I know the trigger pull is heavy on the Sigma. That can be easily fixed by a gunsmith for a minimal amount of money. Some may argue that the Glock beats the Sigma just because you have to have a gunsmith work on the trigger to lighten the pull. On the flip side, in order to shoot lead rounds through the Glock safely, you have to change out the barrels (which is not exactly cheap).

Both pistols are rated to SAAMI pressures, so I don't think there is any issues with that.

I just want to know why the Sigma is dogged so much when compared to a Glock when they both look about 98% the same internally. Like I said, I already know about the trigger issue, and I also know about the fact that Glocks use a polygonal barrel, versus the more traditional 5 in 1 twist barrel of the Sigma.

P.S. I do NOT want this thread to turn into an argument or flame war about how the Glock rulz just because it's the uber-leet pistol, and you are a noob if you don't have a Glock, and the Glock just pwns all, etc, etc, etc.......

If the pistols are virtually the same, why is the Sigma only about 350 dollars and the Glock around 550-600 dollars? I'm not the expert in any way, but it does seem like you may be paying for a brand name when buying the Glock.

Seriously, I want to be educated on this, because I'm trying to find REAL reasons why the Glock costs more. You would think that the Sigma would run as reliably as the Glock with pretty much the same internals/operation, and would be the better value because of how much less the Sigma's cost.

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Old 01-27-2009, 07:15 PM   #2
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Well I own a couple of Glocks but my Bro in law has a sigma and I agree with you. MY next 9mm I get is going to be a Sigma. Other then the trigger pull there is nothing wrong with the pistol at all. +1 for the sigma

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Old 01-27-2009, 08:03 PM   #3
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The trigger system of the Sigma is indeed nearly identical to the GLOCK, so much so that they were sued for the similarities.

The differences however are two-fold. First, the GLOCK has less recoil. I don't know if it is because of the heavier weight of the GLOCK, or the fact that the Sigma doesn't flex at the frame.

Second, the Sigma's ejector and extractor are much different. During a Tactical Response Fighting Pistol class, which uses about 400 rounds on the first day, the instructors invented 5 new malfunctions specific to a student's Sigma. A number 6 is ejecting the round, hitting something on the slide, and reinserting the brass backwards into the chamber. GLOCKs used that day had no non-user-induced malfunctions.

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Old 01-27-2009, 08:11 PM   #4
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....the Glock flexes at the frame? Ok, I didn't know that.

Now those problems you said about the Sigma. Is that just one pistol being problematic or is that something to look out for in all of the Sigma pistols?

The recoil systems are pretty much the same, and the weight is within about 2 ounces of each other (I thought). The Sigma does have a slightly bulkier side than the Glock.

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Old 01-27-2009, 08:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ranger_sxt View Post
A number 6 is ejecting the round, hitting something on the slide, and reinserting the brass backwards into the chamber.
I'm curious as to why? It would seem that if you re-inserted empty brass, backwards, into just about any modern firearm it wouldn't eject since most every ejector relies on the rim of the cartridge to perform.

I am sure they actually did this and am not insinuating otherwise, I just don't understand why.

JD
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER View Post
Ok, I have a question. I have looked over the internals of both the Glock and S&W Sigma pistols. Since they are pretty much the same internally, and in function (i.e. slide stop operation, trigger safety, take-down, etc...), why are people dogging on the Sigma so much?

Keep in mind that I know the trigger pull is heavy on the Sigma. That can be easily fixed by a gunsmith for a minimal amount of money. Some may argue that the Glock beats the Sigma just because you have to have a gunsmith work on the trigger to lighten the pull. On the flip side, in order to shoot lead rounds through the Glock safely, you have to change out the barrels (which is not exactly cheap).

Both pistols are rated to SAAMI pressures, so I don't think there is any issues with that.

I just want to know why the Sigma is dogged so much when compared to a Glock when they both look about 98% the same internally. Like I said, I already know about the trigger issue, and I also know about the fact that Glocks use a polygonal barrel, versus the more traditional 5 in 1 twist barrel of the Sigma.

P.S. I do NOT want this thread to turn into an argument or flame war about how the Glock rulz just because it's the uber-leet pistol, and you are a noob if you don't have a Glock, and the Glock just pwns all, etc, etc, etc.......

If the pistols are virtually the same, why is the Sigma only about 350 dollars and the Glock around 550-600 dollars? I'm not the expert in any way, but it does seem like you may be paying for a brand name when buying the Glock.

Seriously, I want to be educated on this, because I'm trying to find REAL reasons why the Glock costs more. You would think that the Sigma would run as reliably as the Glock with pretty much the same internals/operation, and would be the better value because of how much less the Sigma's cost.
Glock has a better PR Department.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:28 PM   #7
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Dillinger, I think he meant that during the cycling operation of the Sigma, the round extracted after firing but did not clear the chamber area, which caused it to be re-cycled into the weapon azz end first. Pretty much a weird double-feed of sorts is what I guessing.

I'm going to go out on a limb and possibly say that those problems might be specific to that particular Sigma.

Both pistols will have their fair share of jamming up during operation. There's testimonials of Sigma's running thousands of rounds through with no problem.

I can see that there is about 3 differences between the pistols so far.

1. The looks. The slide on the Sigma is slightly bulkier than the Glock, and the grip isn't as blocky. Also the trigger guard is rounded on the Sigma, versus the more "combat" stylings of the Glock's trigger guard.

2. The barrels. The Glock uses polygonal rifling, and the Sigma uses traditional (I call it traditional because I do not know the other term for it).

3. The extractor. They look slightly different and the Sigma extractor seems to be a little bulkier.

Is there a difference in materials/coatings used to explain the big cost difference between the two?

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Old 01-27-2009, 09:01 PM   #8
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Sgt - I would be inclined to agree with you, but this is what was written:

Quote:
A number 6 is ejecting the round, hitting something on the slide, and reinserting the brass backwards into the chamber.
Now is the "hitting the slide" supposed to simulate hitting a doorjam going through as you are firing the weapon, in which case how would you go about actually hitting the exact chamber extraction at the moment of the round coming out?

In any event, it strikes me as odd, because if you have ever fired a weapon with a brass catcher you know full well sooner or later one of those shells is going to mess up your cycle - but that doesn't make the weapon unreliable.

JD
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER View Post
....the Glock flexes at the frame? Ok, I didn't know that.

Now those problems you said about the Sigma. Is that just one pistol being problematic or is that something to look out for in all of the Sigma pistols?

The recoil systems are pretty much the same, and the weight is within about 2 ounces of each other (I thought). The Sigma does have a slightly bulkier side than the Glock.
Yes, the GLOCK flexes at the frame, according to the GLOCK Armorer's course. This was supposed to be a deliberate thing to reduce felt recoil.

And this was just one problematic gun, but it is indicative of the Sigma's that have gone through a serious workout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
I'm curious as to why? It would seem that if you re-inserted empty brass, backwards, into just about any modern firearm it wouldn't eject since most every ejector relies on the rim of the cartridge to perform.

I am sure they actually did this and am not insinuating otherwise, I just don't understand why.

JD
I don't know why, and no one else could figure it out either. The shooter took his pistol and traded it for a used GLOCK 17 that evening, and never even bothered to look more into the issue.

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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Sgt - I would be inclined to agree with you, but this is what was written:



Now is the "hitting the slide" supposed to simulate hitting a doorjam going through as you are firing the weapon, in which case how would you go about actually hitting the exact chamber extraction at the moment of the round coming out?

In any event, it strikes me as odd, because if you have ever fired a weapon with a brass catcher you know full well sooner or later one of those shells is going to mess up your cycle - but that doesn't make the weapon unreliable.

JD
No, the brass hit the slide somehow, and returned into the chamber. This was with factory ammo (Winchester, I believe).
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:11 PM   #10
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Where at the frame does a Glock flex?

Wouldn't the flexing of a polymer material cause it to be brittle/prone to cracking over time?

I'm just curious because this is new to me. I haven't heard of a pistol design incorporating a flexing frame. Maybe I'm less educated than I thought on pistols...lol.

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