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Old 08-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #81
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You should shoot the caliber and pistol that yo ucna shoot best under stress. Using capacity as your deal make/breaker simply means you put your trust in the idea that even if you miss 12 times you're OK. Tell that to the 12 stray rounds you just sent out into the wild.
Learn to shoot under stress. Ammo will of more use to you.

Now, I don't know about you operators out there but I can't fill one hand up with stories where a civilian has used over 5 rounds in a...."fire fight"
(yeah, I went there for you cool operators)...Umm...I mean self defense situation.

There is no substitute for trigger time. I'm sure the bulk of you reading this are in much better shape than this half a century old busted back fat man. No you can't get live ammo flying back at you but you can get yourself set up to shoot at targets while your body is under duress.

Find what you shoot best. It really wont matter much if you can't shoot the round as well anyway. If (god forbid) you have to defend yourself it will be ober in seconds nad if you fire irt will be under 3 rounds or less.

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Old 08-25-2013, 10:17 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by DrumJunkie
Find what you shoot best. It really wont matter much if you can't shoot the round as well anyway. If (god forbid) you have to defend yourself it will be ober in seconds nad if you fire irt will be under 3 rounds or less.
If I had a crystal ball like yours I'd conceal carry a 45LC/.410 derringer. I can shoot it great.

But I don't have one so i dont know whether I'll be faced with a meth head who refuses to die nicely instead of your paper target bad guy who drops at the first shot. So I think I'll keep my extra mags handy. Nice thought though! Hope that's all we ever face is paper bad guys!
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

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Old 08-25-2013, 10:54 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by DrumJunkie
You should shoot the caliber and pistol that yo ucna shoot best under stress. Using capacity as your deal make/breaker simply means you put your trust in the idea that even if you miss 12 times you're OK. Tell that to the 12 stray rounds you just sent out into the wild.
Learn to shoot under stress. Ammo will of more use to you.

Now, I don't know about you operators out there but I can't fill one hand up with stories where a civilian has used over 5 rounds in a...."fire fight"
(yeah, I went there for you cool operators)...Umm...I mean self defense situation.

There is no substitute for trigger time. I'm sure the bulk of you reading this are in much better shape than this half a century old busted back fat man. No you can't get live ammo flying back at you but you can get yourself set up to shoot at targets while your body is under duress.

Find what you shoot best. It really wont matter much if you can't shoot the round as well anyway. If (god forbid) you have to defend yourself it will be ober in seconds nad if you fire irt will be under 3 rounds or less.
If a miss 12 times I'm good!! That means I hit 4 times and I have a fresh mag of 15 in my G19 in case 4 wasn't enough!! That's a 25% hit ratio, which isn't much to brag about, but probably sufficient!! On the other hand 25% of 6 doesn't quite equate to two!! Plus it takes more time to reload a revolver than a semi if you have an extra mag in reach!! Probably a good reason among many that LE has long since decided that capacity matters!!
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:00 AM   #84
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Tell that to the thousands upon thousands of bad guys put down with a revolver or only a few shots from a semi.

Your story is the exception, not the norm
Most people that carry a firearm will never use it for defence it would be a exception not the norm. But that doseint stop people carrying a firearm. Same as carrying extra ammo makes sense just in case.


Around 5:30 yesterday, Dallas police officers were dispatched to 3 MO Tires & Wheels at S. Buckner Boulevard and Military Parkway, where they arrived to find 47-year-old Vicente Banuelos Sr. lying on the ground. He’d been shot — five times, as far as officers could tell, in his chest and stomach. From the look of the casings they found on the ground, police believe the suspect used a .45 semi-automatic.

PHOENIX - On September 5, 2010, Adam Pepiton, 20, was leaving a barbecue at a friend’s house.

Seconds later, Adam was hit by a stray bullet from a drive-by shooting. The .45 caliber bullet entered the left side of his skull, traveled through his brain and was lodged in the right side of his skull. He survived.


I was replying to the below post that implies that a hit from a .45 will be fatal.

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I'm going to go with 45ACP.

How many people do you know that are introduced to you:

"Mike, I'd like you to meet John. In June of 19xx he took two

45 rounds to the chest, and survived."
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:10 AM   #85
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Surviving is whole lot different than being able to still fight. I think a 45 to the brain pan probably took him down. I bet he didn't get back up that day.

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Old 08-25-2013, 11:12 AM   #86
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Surviving is whole lot different than being able to still fight. I think a 45 to the brain pan probably took him down. I bet he didn't get back up that day.
Yes I think that would apply to most calibers not just .45.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:39 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by manta
Yes I think that would apply to most calibers not just .45.
A CNS strike in any caliber should definitely result in a one shot drop. Whether he survives is up to God, but he won't continue to do what he was doing.

Theres definitely a lot of luck or skill involved to hit a 1/2 inch cord strung up the center of a persons body in a firefight. Or even that 5 inch brain pan shot for that matter.

And those are the only 2 guaranteed "1 stop drops" with a pistol.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:48 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF

A CNS strike in any caliber should definitely result in a one shot drop. Whether he survives is up to God, but he won't continue to do what he was doing.

Theres definitely a lot of luck or skill involved to hit a 1/2 inch cord strung up the center of a persons body in a firefight. Or even that 5 inch brain pan shot for that matter.

And those are the only 2 guaranteed "1 stop drops" with a pistol.
The more chances at the kills zones the better! The center of the argument for capacity vs a little more power!!
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:39 PM   #89
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Yes I think that would apply to most calibers not just .45.
i think the whole idea is to stop a threat. regardless of whether the BG lives or dies. if a BG is intent on attacking you, or is attacking you, i think we can agree that survival of theat encounter is the key factor, not killing someone.

in the unlikely event i am attacked, my only goal and intention is to stop that threat as quickly as possible. i am not llokning to kill or wound, only to stop the threat from continueing on with their plans or intentions.

if i pull a pistol and never fire a shot, and the BG flees, then my goal has been met. if i shoot and wing him in the arm, and he flees, then again my goals have been met. if i shoot him center mass and he stops and later goes to the hospital and makes full recovery and i am alive, then my goals again have been met. if i shoot him and he drops and dies within moments of being shot, then again i have met my goals. i survived. that is what IMO is the most important factor, not whether i kill them with a 45 or 9mm or 38 or any other caliber. stopping the threat from achieving their goals and you surviving.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:10 PM   #90
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Most people that carry a firearm will never use it for defence it would be a exception not the norm. But that doseint stop people carrying a firearm. Same as carrying extra ammo makes sense just in case.
I can see carrying an extra mag, but carrying 30+ rounds is not a necessity.

Going in with the idea that your going to miss is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. You aim to hit, or you don't shoot. Those bullets will go somewhere. That somewhere may be a mother and her four year old daughter.

The "the bullet may not stop them" is a little better, but not good enough to convince most people who are already carrying to switch guns. Two or three well placed shots will put someone out of the fight (they don't need to be dead) the vast majority of the time. To actually have to use 17 rounds means one of who things. Your missing too much, or your not actually hitting fatal areas.

Quote:
Around 5:30 yesterday, Dallas police officers were dispatched to 3 MO Tires & Wheels at S. Buckner Boulevard and Military Parkway, where they arrived to find 47-year-old Vicente Banuelos Sr. lying on the ground. He’d been shot — five times, as far as officers could tell, in his chest and stomach. From the look of the casings they found on the ground, police believe the suspect used a .45 semi-automatic.

PHOENIX - On September 5, 2010, Adam Pepiton, 20, was leaving a barbecue at a friend’s house.

Seconds later, Adam was hit by a stray bullet from a drive-by shooting. The .45 caliber bullet entered the left side of his skull, traveled through his brain and was lodged in the right side of his skull. He survived.


I was replying to the below post that implies that a hit from a .45 will be fatal.
Let's see. One was shot 5 times, the other only once. Both were incapacitated. Proof that you don't need high capacity. Shot placement is everything.
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